Question for Brad Sarno

Daniel Vorp · From: Burlington, NC USA

Brad, perhaps you can comment further. I'm interested in your earlier discussion regarding 12" speakers versus 15". The Peavey 112 sounds terrific with 1 12" speaker. As you mentioned recently, the amps used by Lloyd and Buddy had 2 12" speakers installed. Can you discuss the relative merits of 1 12" versus 2 12" speakers in the cabinet? Thank you in advance for your comments.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Hey Dan. Well I don't have the numbers as far as resonant frequencies go, but I'd say that basically a 12" speaker would tend to have a higher bass resonance and also focus more energy into the midrange. It seems that over the years, guitarists have found the 12" speaker to be the best voice for electric guitar sounds. There is a clarity and a bite and a quickness that just seems to be the winner. Think about the many classic guitar amps; Marshalls, Fenders, Vox's, Boogies, Matchless, and the zillions of new amps out today. Some have 10" speakers, most have 12" speakers, very few have 15" speakers. I think that the 15" came into vogue because it was generally more of a bass speaker and it would give nice big fat low notes on the C6 neck. But as far as the overall tone and voice, the 12" speaker seems to have proven itself over and over again. Keep in mind too that 2-12" speakers have more surface area than 1-15".

I think about Lloyd's tone on the Charlie Pride Panther Hall album. That was a stock Fender Twin with 2- JBL D120's. Then there's Buddy's Black Album. I think that was also a Twin with 2-12" speakers. You look at all the rave reviews of the new Nashville 112. Really, that amp is just the preamp from a NV-1000 but with a smaller amp and cabinet and a simple little 12" speaker. I think the key to that little amp is the speaker. Has anyone tried a JBL D112 in there yet?

I've got a 15" JBL D-130 in my Twin and I just love it. There's a warmth and fullness to it. But when I play thru my Deluxe Reverb with a 12" JBL, it also has a beautiful voice to it. Paul Franklin records with a 12" Black Widow which is a GREAT sounding speaker by the way. Maybe people gravitate to a 15" because we like combo amps that are just big enough to hold one speaker. One 15" can move lots more air than 1-12". I don't really have an answer, but I like the discussion. But the NV112 has surely brought much attention back to the greatness of a 12" speaker for electric (including steel) guitar.

Doesn't Jerry Byrd use a 2-12" JBL loaded Twin? His tone aint so bad either

Brad Sarno

David Doggett · Posted 2 Nov 2004 8:05 am

Dan, I've played Twins with 2 12s and also one 15. They both sound really good, but I think the 15 sounds better for pedal steel - the mids and lows just sound better, and the highs less shrill. The only time the 12 comes close is when playing with a big loud group, where the deeper, mellower sound of a 15 gets drowned out a little easier. I think this has something to do with why regular guitar players switched from 15s to 12s back in the '50s and early '60s.

If you look over on the Fender Amp Field guide, you see that originally Fender's top amp was the Pro, with a 15. The Pro kept a 15 through 1964. Other top amps in the '50s, like Standel, had a 15. Everyone preferred them for the big full sound they gave the early electric guitars. In 1953 the Twin came out with the same power as the Pro, but with two 12s, hence it's name. My belief is that as groups got louder and had loud drums and electric basses, guitar players discovered that the 12s cut through for lead and rythmn better than a 15. The Twin became the top selling high volume Fender amp. In '63 Fender put a JBL D130 in a Pro and called it a Vibroverb (Stevie Ray Vaughn's favorite amp), but even this didn't save the single 15 combos in sales apparently. In 1965 the Vibroberb was discontinued, and the Pro Reverb came out with two 12s. Its been all 12s or 10s (Vibrolux, Super Reverb) for lead and rhythm guitar ever since.

Only steelers kept up their love affair with 15" speakers. Fender only occassionaly made an amp with the power steelers need and a 15 (Vibrasonic '59-'63, Vibrosonic Reverb '72-'81, Custom Vibrasonic '94-'96), and these were low production rare amps. But lots of Twins were available with two 12s, so lots of steelers used them. When ShoBud, Peavey, Webb etc. started making dedicated steel amps, they all had 15" speakers. Today Lloyd and Buddy play through 15" speakers. Last I heard Lloyd has a black face Twin in a head cabinet, and a Marrs cabinet(s) with a 15" JBL. Both of Fender's new steel amps have a 15. But some steeler rockers such as Buddy Cage, and I believe Dan Tyack, prefer 12s to cut through the loud rock mix.

Sure two 12s have a little more surface area than a single 15. But two 15s have way more surface area than that, and they still don't cut through as well in a loud group. It has more to do with the "voice" of the speaker. For that matter, 10s sound really sweet for lead guitar, but most people find them too shrill for steel.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 02 November 2004 at 08:23 AM.]

Daniel Vorp · From: Burlington, NC USA

I appreciate your responses. To dig a little deeper, do you guys know why amplifier manufacturers went to 2 12" speakers instead of 1 12" speaker? I am asking because I like the sound of my Peavey 112 better at lower volume levels. The harder I push it (live band setting) it begins to lose some of the tonal sweetness. I am wondering if that phenomenon is a function of having 1 12" speaker, limited power output (80 watts), or ??? This comment is not meant as a negative comment about the 112. I love that amp.

David Doggett · Posted 2 Nov 2004 9:21 am

Bigger speakers typically have larger magnets and voice coils, and better power handling abilities. At the time of the first Twin reverb with two 12s, speakers had less power handling abilities, especially for low notes. It was considered necessary to have two 12" speakers to handle the higher powered amps like the Pro that were using a single 15" speaker, even though those amps were only about 25 watts. Todays speakers handle more power, but it is still necessary to have multiple speakers in higher powered amps, whereas the lowest powered amps can do with one.

The bad sound at louder volumes is almost certainly a problem of the amp and its power, rather than the speaker. Although Peavey has done a remarkable job with the NV 112 and its 80 watts and single 12, in general, solid state amps begin to sound bad when stressed at their highest volumes. Peavey designed the 112 as a small bedroom and practice amp. It is so well designed that it seems to do fine even at louder volumes than it was designed for. And you can always mike it or use two, for even louder volumes. But alone, it will have a limit of useful volume somewhere below the useful volume you can get from bigger dedicated steel amps, most of which are 200 watts or more, and have 15" speakers.

Clean tube amps actually begin to sound better at their loudest volume. So I have found that a 100 watt Twin has as much usable volume as a 200 watt NV 400, regardless of which speakers are used.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Yea! What David said.

Thanks,
Brad

Daniel Vorp · From: Burlington, NC USA

Thanks guys!

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