Today's "Studio" Condenser Mic Prices

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

I have noticed in advertising and in stores like Guitar Center, mics that look like the super expensive Neumann's for $69, $229, etc.I also see Rhode, Audio Technica, that are way under the price of the Neumanns.

Even after reading the specs, I am confused.

Anyway, I have no use for a Neumann U87, and I certainly would not buy a $69 knockoff.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,, how does one determine the value?? What am I missing?

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Ron, I recently went thru this exact same dilemma..or scenario..whatever we want to term it.

I wanted a nice moderatly priced condensor mic and did not want to spend the big bucks..

I viewed all the BIG Store catalogs that arrive in the mail ( it seems weekly) looked over the brands and ended up with the same question you have..Which one do I buy ?

Well I asked a few friends what they use and it appeared most were using $100 to $250 range mics , all brands and all claimed good results. From there I went on the web and searched the mics and read the reviews. What popped out was MXL..Marshall Electronics..
I ended up buying a blow out from ZZ sounds model 2001 with shock mount for $129..

We have been using it primarily for my wifes vocals and I felt any condensor would be better than the old EV PL80's that I have. I record with a Yamaha AW2816 and this little mic is pretty good..clean, well made and sounds great, at least to me. The reviews were pretty good and the only downfall that I read was that if you dropped it ..it would probably not survive the fall..well the bad news is I did drop it..but the good news is it survived with no problems.Perhpas if it was side by side with a mic twice it's price or more, maybe someone would claim to hear a drastic difference..I think in reality they may hear a subtle difference and I think it would not be so much in the final track product but rather during the actual recording process where you would be praying for Odb and great sound without effects.

I also spoke with a Professional Engineer that hangs out on this forum who also gave me good insight.

Good luck
T

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

I don't know why the big condenser's have gotten less expensive, but they have. I bought an A-T 4033 several years ago, and today I could buy TWO of them for the same money! And I bought a Rode NT-1a, for 169.00, that KILLS the Audio-Technica! Don't know what's going on, but I wish natural gas would do the same thing!

Ben Slaughter · From: Madera, California

I've got an Audio Techinica, don't recall the model but it was in the $130 price range. It sounds good, but is a little noisy. I heard it said that on some of the less expensive mics you get some noise.

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Ben
Zum D10, NV400, POD, G&L Guitars, etc, etc.

J W Alexander · From: Reynoldsburg, Ohio, USA

You guys should try the Marshall Electronics models, too! They flat blow everything else away and can be had for less than $200 each. I'm not talking "close" to good but great mics at unbelievable prices. A friend who owned a small project studio who auditioned this line and immediately sold his prized Neumann and bought 10 Marshall's for that money. He could tell a slight difference but the average person could not!!

Marshall Electronics is NOT associated with the Marshall guitar amps--they are, however, an imported item which might affect some of y'all's "appreciation" for them! Just my $.02 worth! J W

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

There are some quite decent Neuman knockoffs out there. I bought one of the Chinese variety (probably made by school children in a Red Army factory) marketed by Pacific Pro Audio. Looks very similar to the MXL or 'Marshall Audio'. It sounds good. But it's not as good as my Neuman TLM 103. The price difference was something like $140 versus $900 (street price).

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www.tyack.com

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

The Studio Projects C1 for $199 is an incredible bargain. The only difference in most of these $1-200 Chinese mics is the top end if you are recording something with a LOT of upper freqs. If you are doing vocals or guitars they sound fine. Not smooth like the German mic way up high.

I have some of the Marshall mics I bought for $50. They sound fine.

The AT4033 are nice on acoustic instruments. The Rode mics are good, but have been proven to be a bit inconsistent from batch to batch so if you find a good sounding one, keep it!

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

A lot of these clone manuafacturers are getting these mic's made in China that are pretty good for what you are paying for them..A few different companies out there really have some decent mic's...They're really no match quality wise to the higher end mic's , but they get the job done for a lot less money... I use both high end mics , and low end mics... They all work for their intended purposes ... The Studio Projects line are some good mics as well as some of the mic's from Marshall ( MXL ) ... These companies have really put the squeze on some of the higher end companies, and prices have continuted to drop on them ... Competition is good !!.....Jim

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

Most specs on microphones are very deceiving. Usually frequency response is = or -3dB, which may not sound like much but can make a world of difference on the sound of a particular mic. Overall, you can get a lot more bang for the buck with microphones these days, especially because of the ones made in China and Russia. Where you really start hearing differences in mics is when you start trying different ones out on the same source. That's when all those frequency response anomalies kick in big time. One mic might be more flattering when stuck in front of a guitar but sound awful with a singer. I've got 5 different mid-to-high end large condensor mics and each one sounds different. One some singers one mic sounds better, while a different one sounds better on someone else. Usually under these conditions is where you find out the weaknesses in the bargain mics. I remember borrowing the first Groove Tube tub mic many years ago. On first listening, it sounded pretty good. But when you started listening to it on various different sources and compared to other mics, the weaknesses of the mic really came through. Many times it comes down to not whether it does the job, but whether it has the best available sound for the job, that little something extra (that people are usually willing to pay extra for).
Here's my pedal steel analogy:
It's like saying, "Why get a top-of-the-line pedal steel, when I can get a Carter Starter for so cheap. It sounds like a pedal steel. The pedals and levers work. Does their top of the line pedal steel, with the same pedal/kneelever configuration, worth all that extra cost? It doesn't do anything different."

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

Great post, Michael, and I totally agree. The Chinese mics sound really hyped up and on first listen give you a favorable impression, but they do not seem to hold up to the big guns for me. For what they do, they are great. I actually got one of the better fiddle sounds recently with the tube Marshall through a great preamp. I'm fortunate enough to have a great mic locker, so I have something to compare these to (like tube U47's etc.).

From what I have heard, I like the Marshall better than the Studio Projects--though like steel tone, it's totally subjective,

For someone with a home studio, these mics really are a great asset to what you used to be able to get, and that is good...

[This message was edited by John Macy on 12 December 2003 at 07:53 AM.]

John Lacey · From: Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada

About a year or 2 ago, I did some comparison of AT mics from our local music store and was bolled over by the AT4040. The other mics sounded similar but the 4040 was superior. About $500 Canadian.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

The AT 4033 and 4040 are great sounding mics and pretty well made

The Studio Projects C1 is very good for the price, their tube mic is very nice, but not as cheap, but good clarity with warmth is in it.

If you need ONE good mic, either of these is a good solid investment. Which will be relfected in your sound.

Leon Grizzard · From: Austin, Texas, USA

I have a Korg digital recorder, and many folks on the users forum like the Behringer(sic?) condensers better than the Marshalls, and many like the Rode, which cost about a twice as much.

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

Thanks for all the input. I've been checking out all the above mentioned mics. Yea, prices are coming down fast.

Gerald Menke · From: Stormville NY, USA

Condensers may be coming down, but ribbon mics are not. Old Sonys, RCAs, and Royers are still extensive by my standards. I did a session during the summer with a Royer R-121 and was astonished at how good it sounded. Sounded all but exactly like what was coming out of the amp, it was amazing. I wanted to buy one to bring on sessions, but at $1200 that will not be happening.

As far as the precipitous drop in studio mic prices is concerned, the number of companies building even tube-powered large diaphragm condenser microphones has exploded. Could you even touch a tube mic for under a grand 10 years ago? I don't think so. But at that time there were a fraction of the builders there are today.
Tangent:
I think condensers sound a bit strident for the steel, at least by themselves anyway. I prefer a dynamic mic like an SM57 in conjunction with a nice ribbon, like a Reslo or Coles, or of course, a Royer.

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

As I may have mentioned on other threads, we made the precision eqipment for corragating the ribbons for Royer. They are fairly close to our shop. These are hand operated gear/rollers that do the operations on ribbons that are 10 times thinner than a human hair. What impressed me the most is the attitude of perfection the Royer guys have. They may throw away 100 ribbons to get the good one they require. That's part of the reason of why the price is high.

In our engineering work, we often get samples of the end product as rewards for a job well done. Could I expect a free Royer? Well, of course not. Should I expect a price break of some sort, maybe 20% or so? Well, yes. One hand washes etc. I suppose I hoped for too much. I got a handshake and a thanks; and the satisfication that we are a part of one of the best high end mikes in the world.

That will do.

T. C. Furlong · From: Lake County, Illinois, USA

I have been listening to mics and trying to determine what makes one better than another and I have come to some conclusions that may be of interest. Conclusion #1 THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB. A mic that sounds great for a drum overhead may not sound great for a female vocal, and so on. The best way to get a great sound out of a mic is to listen to recordings that you like and find out what was used on that track. Conclusion #2 THE COLOR ON THE PAINTER'S PALETTE. Different mics have different tonalities. Matching those to the singer, amp cabinet, etc. can mean a great recording. The classic vintage mics like Neumann U-47 and AKG C-12 are known quantities to the producers who select them for the artist that they are recording so that is why they end up getting used. They pick mics much like they pick players. Nuemann U-47 might be as much of a safe bet as Paul Franklin or a C-12 like Buddy Emmons.
But here is what I have found separates the men from the boys with microphones. Conclusion #4 OFF AXIS RESPONSE. This is the reason that people pay big bucks for great mics. In my opinion, Neumann has this down. The smooth characteristics of a microphone, outside of it's intended pick-up pattern is crucial to the overall sound. Most folks overlook this one and I think it's the most important factor.

In the end, you should use your ears. But remember to listen off-axis!

There are a bunch of inexpensive large diaphram condensor mics coming out of China. The main things to look for in these, in addition to tonality and off-axis response, is low self-noise. Does the mic have a low enough noise floor when it is just on. If not, you won't be able to use it for anything but close mic'd guitar amps and screamer vocalists. My advice would be....find a reputable dealer that sells a variety of microphones and get their opinion about the right mic(s) for your situation. There is a reason that good microphones cost a lot. You may want to save up and get a really good mic that will provide years of faithful service and end up being worth more than you paid for it when you are ready to sell. Maybe sorta like a '66 push/pull that was purchased new in '66
Just one microphone nut's opinion.

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

Dang it, TC, where have you been? Good to see you around these parts

...

PS--good post.

[This message was edited by John Macy on 03 January 2004 at 10:23 PM.]

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

Dang it, TC, where have you been? Good to see you around these parts

...

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

But do keep in mind that these low price mics coming out of China are really intended for a different user audience..I seriously doubt that they are intended for the HI END lets record ALAN JACKSON crowd..and they should not be.

It's my feeling that these low end coming out of china mics are intended for the low to moderate end, let me make a nice recording at home on my $500/ 8 track workstation crowd..

Is there a difference ? ..sure there is..rightfully so..

And can they do an adequate job, maybe better than adequate ? Yes.. I think they can.. in the right hands of course..

They serve a nice purpose in their intended
domain..They certainly fill a void in the market...

I purchased an MXL 2001, I like it, and I am getting to know it better..but I can see where once I understand this mic and it's limits I may pursue another higher end mic.

But ya still gotta play good and sing good..even a hi priced mic can't fix that..as I am coming to learn !

t

T. C. Furlong · From: Lake County, Illinois, USA

Hi John great to hear from you!

Tony, I totally agree that the Chinese microphones have a purpose. You have obviously found a good tool for the job you have. I have a couple of ADK's in my arsenal. The trick with the cheaper mic's is to find an importing company/distribution company that excercises care in selection of parts and has a good quality control process in place. I think ADK does this well and I'm glad to hear that you like the Marshall. I have not checked them out, but based on your report, I will. If anyone has any brand/model questions, please shoot me an e-mail.

TC

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Tony is absolutely correct that this is an apples oranges thing. I don't for a second question the widsom of a serious engineer spending a grand or a few on a mic, let alone pres and the works but the home studio dude or hobbiest would be insane or obsessive to do so. Just one other piece of advice for a bedroom engineer thinking even of the great deals on large diaphram condensers--and this is my experience, not just academic----they are really sensitive. If you don't have a well prepared room you will be picking up a car horn half a mile away. You just can't cheat. I found out my cat's claws needed clipping via a MXL 1006, headphones and and Ol' Merle walking across a wood floor.

T. C. Furlong · From: Lake County, Illinois, USA

Jon, I agree that high end mics are not within everyone's reach. Wouldn't it be great if we always had the money to go first class with everything? The electronics in home recording have gotten so good and so cheap that they are exposing other weak links in the chain (let's leave out the singing and playing part for now

).The question is---Which of the new breed of inexpensive mics are worthy of our hard earned money and what is the best way to avoid a stinker? And there are some stinkers out there. There are usually a couple of areas that lag behind the electronic excellence that is available today. Microphones are one area, the room in which the performance is recorded is another, and the skill of the person(s) placing the mic and tracking and mixing the performance is another.

But back to microphones...The design and manufacture of the large diaphram inexpensive mics from China are much more useful than what most of us had available even a couple of years ago. I'd pick a good low end large diaphram condenser over the old standby SM-57/58 in many situations, most vocals, acoustic instruments, drum overheads, etc. There are some of these new cheap mics however, that I wouldn't choose to call bingo numbers!

I think that "going for the last dB" is worthwhile and with a little effort may be more within reach than one might think.

TC

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Anyone else use and like Brauners?
I have a Valvet and find it is one of the most versatile mics I have ever used.

It works on so many things well, my main problem is deciding which thing to use it on.
I wish I had 5 more.

My fall back for instruments is a pair of Earthworks SR-71's And the QTC1 matched pair ae also used a lot.

Another really cool mic I was surprised about but am extremely happy with is a
Pearl CC-22 from Sweden. It has an unusualy rectangular capsule and is darned flat up to 25k.

Now flat per se isn't always ideal, but any mics imperfections are the reason it has a sound.
I ususally want as little of a mic's sound as possible.

The C-22's stereo version was also very nice.

I heard them both in cans at AES Copenhagen and got one shortly there after.
It has never let me down.

Though the Brauner is still #1, it smokes my Neuman for most things.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 January 2004 at 09:35 AM.]

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

No disagreement with a word you say T.C.---the MXL sounded fantastic on acoutic guitar and vocal. Just not usable in my setting. My recording efforts have been half-hearted at best re: my commitment to doing it right. I've basically abandoned this rather than convert my living space into a studio. I think I lack the knowledge and ears to discern between a good cheap mic and a not-fit-for-bingo mic and would rely heavily on educated opinions such as yours.
My only reason for posting was to point out the sensitivity issue---an asset for many recording applications but a two edged sword for the home recordist. And a great veterinary tool for the home zoo-keeper.

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