Your Prefered Recording Method?

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I'm looking for input on your prefered method/setup for laying down steel tracks. Eg: Do you prefer going from the pedal, direct to the board and adding effects in mixing? Or possibly going direct from your amp to the board? Or maybe mic'ing the amp? Or running from your rack to the board? Etc? And why?
Thanks
Dennis

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Mic the amp. Still after all these years, top engineers and guitarists almost always choose to mic the speaker. All (probably) of your favorite recorded steel tones came from miked amps. The amp and speaker has a lot to do with the overall voice of the instrument. This goes for regular electric guitars too. The direct to tape style of recording tends to lack 3-dimensionality and is often very difficult to place naturally in a mix. Paul Franklin, Lloyd Green, Buddy Emmons, just to name a few tonemeisters, all mic their amps. The direct tone sounds weird in a mix. It can sound impressive when you listen back to the tracks alone, but when it comes time to mix it with other instruments, the lack of "air" will be apparent and it will be hard to blend in the steel.

Try a Shure SM57 anywhere from 1" to 12" from the sweet spot of your speaker. Spend time with headphones on finding the sweet spot. Generally you'll find a nice zone halfway between the center and edge of the speaker and about 5" off the grill cloth. The closer the mic, the bassier the tone. The farther the mic, the more "realistic" the tone.

Brad Sarno

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

If I'm in full control of the production, I don't mind recording direct. But in most cases, I'm called to add a steel part to someone else's recording. The best way to guarantee a good sound is to mic the amp. That way, the engineer is getting something very close to what you, the steel expert, have created. When the mix is done after you leave the studio, it will be pretty hard for them to screw up your tone.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic, Line6 Variax (coming soon)

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

If I'm using a lot of effects, I just go into the board out of the rack. Since it doesn't sound like a "real" steel guitar to start with, and it's stereo, it's less complicated.

I've gone direct, when it's supposed to sound like a steel guitar, using a TC Electronics Gold Channel and one of its presets, the advantage is that it has really good converters for direct to hard drive. I've also used a Demeter tube bass pre and sometimes a Demeter real reverb (spring) for direct, it's a little noisy, but ok.

Nothing compares to miking a steel guitar thru an amp when it's supposed to sound like a steel guitar. The eq and electronics can be simulated, but the sound of paper "flapping", pushing a mic around can't be simulated very realistically. I had a session, a while back, where it was a Bigsby lap guitar thru a '59 Standel with an Altec speaker, and no reverb. That's the only way you're going to get that sound.

David Spires · From: Millersport, OH

I used to only mic my cabinets in the studio, but the POD XT is very surprising, running direct.

Believe it or not, my prefered method is direct from the POD XT. (and, I have never liked running direct before...) With all that said, you have to work at developing a direct sound - just like you have spent years developing a live sound to your amp. Don't expect one to translate to the other.

Just my 2 cents,

David Spires

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

I'm with David, you have to work at it. While I love micing the cabinets, and have an awesome collection of mics/preamps, some of my favorite sounds I have gotten direct. Always through either my Mesa or Evans preamps, generally through a Neve 1073 pre/eq. I think they sit in the track as well, or sometimes better than the miced tracks. Though there are certainly times the cabinets sound better on certain kinds of things. I have cut the same part both ways, side by side, and sometimes it's hard to tell which is which. I don't think there is a right or wrong way, personally. If it sounds great, it is great...

When I do an outside session, either miced or direct, I generally carry my own pres and/or mics. Helps immensely to hand them a finished product.

[This message was edited by John Macy on 07 February 2003 at 11:37 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

John Macy wrote:

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

I go guitar/volume pedal/instrument preamp, then into the Neve. Works for me...

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

I always go direct, out of my rack, but that after years of experience in tweeking my rig.
JJ

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Click on the pic!

richard burton · From: Britain

I take a line out from my amp (Session 500), and put a jack into the 'power amp in' input on the back panel, to mute the 500's speaker. This gives me all the benefits of a Session 500's EQ, without the clatter of the pedals and levers being picked up by a mic.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

John Mack wrtoe:

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

Sorry, it's the Evans or the Mesa. So, guitar-volume pedal-Mesa Or Evans-Neve. I send line out from the Neve to whatever medium is being recording on. That way, they can only screw it up in the mix...

And the Neve puts some kinda magic mojo on whatever you run through them. They have a great color that I adore.

[This message was edited by John Macy on 07 February 2003 at 07:32 PM.]

Gordon Borland · From: San Antonio, Texas, USA

I like to isolate the amp and use a shure sm57 and find the sweet spot. I dont have to use headphones and just crank the monitors.
I use a Nashville 400. I also have a 1962
brown face fender deluxe for that old Bakersfield Buck Owens bright thing he had going over there. I read that because the fender amps could produce that ear spliting "bright" they were better suited for listening on AM radios. Some projects cry for that sound. Great topic.

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

We had a big name producer as guest speaker in College this week, and he is a total maniac for speakers and Mics- except that he prefers the sound of a £500 AKH414 to a £85 SM57.
This is what he said on the subject.
The key factor is the room. If you have a great sounding room, then you want that great sound on your recording, so you use a Mic on the amp. No amount of processing will ever copy that. If you haven't got good room acoustics, record direct, but then take your recording to church -or somewhere that does sound great, and play it back and re-record complete with the good acoustics.
It could be time to get religion!
Cheers
Dave

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I giess it depends, if it's in a studio with an engineer I would most likely opt for micing the amp.

At home I record direct to my digital workstation. I have written input effect patches ( EQ,Delay, Reverb etc...) which are extremely consistent and are an instant setup.

I also use my stand-alone workstation recording setup as my normal practice rig using headphones. I only practice with the amp now and then.

My time is spent on playing /recording rather than setting up for the desired sound each time. Been there done that.

Recording live with a mic is an excellent format to capture the absolute tone but does require knowledge, experience and patience to get it right and consistent, thats why we call them Recording Engineers..a well deserved title.

good luck
tp

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 08 February 2003 at 09:13 AM.]

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

I run direct some and mic some. Depends on the studio. Any effects I use are run at the same time. I use no reverb, just delay or distortion or chorus, etc. I let the engineer add the verb in my cans and in the mix. That way the verb matches everything else.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Lynn Kasdorf · From: Waterford Virginia, USA

I've always had the engineer mic the amp. One problem can be the background noise of the amp. I just need to remember to play loud in order to get a decent signal to noise.

Regarding the reverb- I like to use whatever reverb I am used to coming out of the amp on a gig. I've had engineers telling me that they want a dry signal so they can put on THEIR reverb, which is obviously better that the spring unit in my peavey...but maybe I prefer the sound of that crappy spring!!

I've had some sessions where the tone of the steel on the final product was terrible (imho), and some where it was great. Generally, the ones where it was great were the ones where I set the amp so it sounded good to me, and they just mic'ed it.

I think recording engs can get too caught up in the technology sometimes.

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

This is another one of those "it depends" kind of answers....I will sometime go out of the volume pedal to a distribution box that can send the same signal to amp/ preamp/ mic preamp ...I will record it all....Mic the speaker, and also record straight to a regular guitar preamp, and then to something like Neve or similar pre for an added tone....Mixing them all in the end helps round out the tone, and if the mix get's too heavy, I can go to the tone that I need from either the mic'd track or the direct track....It also give me extra tracks to ad effects to later if I so choose....

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

I've had really great luck going straight out of my Peavey Transtube Fex into the recorder. Sometimes through a couple of nice mic pres, Avalon , Demeter, etc. Which will basically warm or color the sound I'm already getting. I have tweezed a lot of settings for recording differently from what I use live, and it's easy to give the producer exactly how much verb and delay, chorus, whatever they want. Avoid using the cheap mic pres on low priced mixing consoles at all costs! If you're micing your amp, the mic and preamp, compressor and anything else in the chain will make a huge difference in your tone. (Not to mention the room) I'm thinking of hauling my Empirical labs distressor around to all my sessions, seems you can't make a bad sound with that thing- but would need two for stereo and I don't have another spare grand right now! I have to say I've had some rather sceptical engineers and producers want to mic an amp until they heard the transtube fex... 9 times out of ten it's "that's the sound!" And a big plug here for my Hilton volume pedal, first in line every time.

Buck Dilly · From: Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.

I like using at least 2 mikes. One up close and one or more further back. I take suggestions from engineers. I think it is bad to be too rigid. I have used several different tube amps and gotten similar results, but prefer my Vibrosonic.

Rich Weiss · From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA

I also like going direct. I did use a Pod for ages, but now I have two Neve preamps and I like to go stereo through both volume pedal outputs, into the Neves, then add effects from my selection of plug ins. Realverb and Channelstrip are very nice.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

I just had one where I went into an Evans pre amp to a TC Electronics G-Force into the board and it sounded decent.

Glenn Austin · From: Montreal, Canada

Microphones and Neve modules aside, The key to getting a good recorded sound with a Peavey steel amp is to have it good and loud, which might seem weird when you're recording alone. They don't sound right at low volume. As far as recording method goes, If you're a good player point the mic at the amp, if not, then point it away from the amp.

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