10-string pickups

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Since I'm a newbie and because I don't have the opportunity to listen to any other steel guitars, I don't have any knowledge on this subject.

What are some possible brands and sources of those brands of new 10-string psg pickups that have a single coil sound?

I noticed that the George L "E66" pickup is advertised as having a sound similar to the "1966 Emmons." I don't believe that I am knowledgeable enough to recognize the sound of a '66 Emmons when I hear it

But, I am assuming that this is probably a single-coil sound since probably most psg's of that era had single coils -- right, or wrong?

Are there any other makes of single coil p/u's for 10-string psg? Where would I go to look at/for them?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

The other big maker of steel guitar pickups is Bill Lawrence. The Lawrence pickups are usually my favorites. Lawrence makes several different models, designed for different steel guitars. I love the Lawrence XR-16 pikcup on my Zum steel.

Also there are many small operations such as Jim Pitman. Pitman's Tonealigner really sounds good on my Franklin guitar.

Jeff Peterson · From: Nashville, TN USA

The 'other' maker? Seeing as Bill designed most, or all we see today, that's a shot! George was Bill's distributer from '75 to '81, so take that from there. Lawrence is the only actual pickup 'designer' working today with steel guitar. Everyone else just wraps wire around magnets. Give Bill a call, I'm sure he'd be happy to enlighten you.
By the way, it's an LXR-16. The other two are, 710, and 910(sidewinder). I'm still beating him up to go ahead and just put out a damn single-coil....his would be the absolute best.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

I agree 100%. Bill Lawrence has been designing state of the art pickups for decades, and still he designs newer and better ones. He is absolutely in a class by himself.

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

OK -- so, not to beat a dead horse, but I can't say that I'm imune to being somewhat dense at times --

I take it from the above conversation that there isn't (?) actually a single coil p/u available at the moment? I apologize for jumping right in here before doing research on the net and so forth, but I figured someone could just as easily explain it to me and have fun doing it.

So, is the "E66" p/u a single coil or not?

Gino Iorfida · From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

If you want a true 'single coil' your options would be:
1) Get one from Jerry Wallace or possibly Emmons since those ARE true single coils
2) Get someone to custom wind for you (Jerry Wallace, BIll Lawrence?, Jason Lollar etc)
3) Wind your own.
4) I think the George L's with the 5 way switch, would allow you to get true 'single coil' tones.... then again, you could possibly hack into a Lawrence etc to do a coil cut

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Bruce Zumsteg makes single coil pickups, and they are standard on the Zumsteel guitars. Many players replace them with Lawrence pickups, so I'm sure one of those guys would be happy to sell you the old single coil pickup.
I would sell you mine, but I loaned it to somebody and I forget who it was. Besides, it's a 12-string.

richard burton · From: Britain

Does anyone know which Bill Lawrence pickup sounds most like a single coil?

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

I did a bit of checking on the "net" and according to the Bill Lawrence website, the 900 Series "Sidewinder" is supposed to sound like a classic single coil pickup w/o the noise normally associated therewith. In fact, it is described as a single coil with some longitudinal noise-cancelling windings on each side of the row of main coils.

I went back again to George L's website to see if there might have been something I missed. Nope -- the sound of George L's pickups is not described in terms of being either a single coil or a humbucker. Instead, they are described comparatively with other guitars and players. For example, the E66 p/u is described only as sounding close to a 1966 Emmons guitar -- I guess if I knew whether that guitar came with a single that might help a bit. But even so, it still wouldn't help much because I don't know where I could go and listen to a '66 Emmons.

Similarly, the other George L p/u's are described as sounding like Jimmy Day or Tommy White, etc. -- still not much help to me personally.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Tom, what kind of steel guitar do you have? The 910 (Sidewinder) is a great sounding pickup but it might not sound bright enough on some steel guitars, for example Sho-Bud or Franklin, in my opinion. For those brands, you might prefer the brighter sound of the 710 pickup.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Tom, Carter has sound clips on their web site of some of the popular pickups: http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/pickups/pusounds.htm
I'm happy with the Lawrence 712 on my Carter, and the stock Emmons pickups on my Emmons. Good luck to you.

[This message was edited by Bill Moore on 24 December 2002 at 01:14 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Tom, if you are indeed a "newbie", then you will probably not notice much difference in pickups, period. There are differences, mind you, but they are very subtle differences. Though some may argue, I would recommend that "newbie" players worry about the things that are far more critical to a good sound. The basic skills...tuning, bar placement, muting, right-hand techniques, amp settings, and acquiring a pleasing "taste" or style, are far more important, IMHO.

In a studio situation, or playing in a quiet room, there are notable characteristics for each pickup. But, when playing live (in the average band), most players would be hard pressed to detect any significant differences. I have found that a simple one or two number change on the amp's middle control has far more effect on the overall sound than a different pickup. In getting a "good sound", they are probably the smallest part of the equation...again, IMHO.

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

I appreciate everyone's input. I actually don't have a pedal steel yet. The reason I'm asking the question is because I've noticed that most new steels come with a dual coil -- or at least I can say that many new steels DO NOT come with a single coil pickup to my knowledge, and some have an option of a particular brand or two.

Donny -- your advice is well taken. You could be right in that I might not be able to tell the difference in pickups. But, my gut feeling is that I can and that I prefer the sound of a single coil -- just my personal opinion, of course.

The reason I say that I think I can tell the difference is because I can instantly recognize the sound of a single coil 6-string pickup and I would go so far as saying that I can tell the difference between a tele pickup and a strat pickup -- I would say it just comes from playing and listening to different pickups for a number of years. I could be wrong of course, but I know I can definitely tell the difference in sound between a single coil and a dual coil 6-string p/u.

The psg is a bit different because I haven't played one. However, I've listened to a ton of pedal steel on recordings, and I believe that I can tell the difference b/t a psg w/ a humbucker and a psg w/ a single coil. One reason I think I can say this is because I've noticed the similarity in sound between the steels on older recordings and the sound of a tele pickup. I know that most older steels had single coils. Thus, it leads me to believe that the sound of these steels on the older recordings that I've heard is due, at least in part, to the fact that the pickup is a single coil. I figure if I'm going to learn to play psg, I might as well have a guitar that has the sound I like. For example, if I'd had to learn 6-string on a Les Paul w/ humbuckers, I believe that I would have lost interest long ago. But, I think the fact that I got a tele right off the bat kept my interest up because I liked the sound of the guitar. So, I'm trying to figure out how to get the single coil sound if I end up getting a new psg. In other words, I want to know which p/u to specify if I get an option, or if I don't get an option, which aftermarket p/u to buy and install. Course, I could be wrong about the whole thing though.

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 26 December 2002 at 11:21 PM.]

Larry Chung · From: San Francisco, CA, USA

...Or you could find an ol' ZB Custom guitar with the marvelous single-coil pickups that made 'em famous. They have a three way selector switch so you can choose one of three settings that sound great! Very little hum for single coil pickups and great guitars.

(:

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Hi Larry -- yes, that's an option, I guess. But, I think I'd actually like to get a newer guitar and keyless.

By the way, what are the three settings you're referring to? Are all three settings a single coil? Or, do they switch between a single coil and a humbucker? Is there only one p/u with 3 settings, or are there two different p/u's? Perhaps it's a single coil with different coil settings like the "Velvet Hammers" that Clarence White used? I believe those were designed by PSG player Red Rhodes -- I might be wrong.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 06 December 2004 at 02:14 AM.]

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Hi Fred -- thanks for the post. I'll definitely look into Jerry Wallace's products. Does he have a website? I take it that the p/u you're referring to has a single coil sound with some sort of hum-cancelling features. I agree that the hum associated with the single coild can definitely be an annoyance. I know that there is some technology that is used in some of the newer pickups that gives a single coil sound without the hum. I don't really know much about the technology, but I know Fender uses it in their "noiseless" single coil pickups. I suspect that there are some psg pickups available with that same technology. Perhaps the Jerry Wallace p/u has this as well as the Bill Lawrence p/u's.

And, yes I admit that I can be somewhat anal at times. I've been lurking around this forum for quite a while, posting every now and then and I still don't have a psg. Mainly it's because I wanted to try to figure out enough about what I'm buying so that I can get something that I won't be disappointed with. The fact that what I'm dealing with is a psg makes things a bit challenging because it's something you can't just go down to the local music store and kick the tires and look under the hood -- there simply aren't any of these things around anywhere. But, the comments from forumites such as yourself have helped tremendously. Thanks again.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 06 December 2004 at 02:15 AM.]

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I too am a big fan of Jerry's pickups and I have one in my Sierra.It sounds great in that guitar and I also have one in my new Excel keyless 12-string and it sounds even better in that guitar.Jerry is a specialist - he only makes single coil pickups wound to 17.5k and to my ear,they sound WAY more like a 66 Emmons pickup than a GL E-66(which is a humbucker BTW).

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Hey Michael -- thanks for the info and for being the one to finally tell me whether the E66 is a single coil or not!

I did some searching and found Jerry's website -- here's the address:
http://groups.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us

He seems like an interesting guy. He has some really interesting pictures on his site. He's owned a bunch of different steels and has pics of them all. He also has pics of his p/u coil-winding machine. His prices seem to be very good in comparison with other p/u sellers. He's also a ham radio operator. Thanks to everyone for the help and advice.

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