Amps for PSG?

Chas Friedman · From: Wimberley, Texas, USA

Is there a good summary/article on amps for PSG available somewhere (on the web?) I've been using various guitar amps (Fender, Danelectro, etc), but I'm just trying to learn PSG, and for that purpose any amp seems OK (I even used a Pignose some!)
However, I'm somewhat confused about what is best. I notice that Peavey groups their various acoustic guitar amps together with some (like the Nashville 1000) that I know are used for steel. Are those other Peavey models made for acoustic guitar decent steel amps? Are other amps made for acoustic guitar
(such as Fender or Crate) good for steel?
What about other guitar non-acoustic amps?
(I think I've heard it said that the Bassman amps are good for steel but I'm not sure...)
I've looked around on the web for info, but haven't found much. I'll read what's on this forum, but most of it is more specialized than what I want to know.
Thanks for any comments!

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I play a Peavey Ecoustic 112 for fiddle and mandolin. Its a great acoustic amp but sucks for steel. The soft cone speaker is specifically designed for acoustic instruments.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

For very good reasons, most steel players today use steel amps, or at least very good amps (such as the Twin Reverb), that were designed for lead guitar, but have the power and speakers needed for serious steel playing. It all boils down to what you're planning to play, and how much you want to pay. Remember...a suitable used amp is better than an unsuitable new one.
The amp usually sits on the floor behind you, so looks aren't really that important, but sound is.

Pedal steel (especially the C6th neck) places some pretty serious demands on an amplifier. While many amps might be "okay" for practice and low level use, when you get to really crankin' in a band situation, they may fall flat on their face! The chief exception to this would be the bass amp, since they are designed for higher levels, and generally have heavy-duty speakers. But a lot of bass amps are bulky, have minimal tonal range, and almost none of them have reverb. Amps designed for acoustic guitar usually have limited power and small speakers, since most acoustic players aren't into "loud stuff" in the first place.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 07 September 2002 at 06:07 PM.]

Michael Brewer · From: Carrollton, Texas

My favorite combination for steel (Bflat6th) is a Music Man HD130 head and a good cabinet with a single 15" speaker. This amp can handle anything you put into it. This was Leo Fender's first amp after he sold out to CBS. You can still pick them up reasonably. With the return of tube amps to popularity these amps are a good investment and are certain to increase in value. There are two versions. The early ones use 12Ax7's in the preamp and 6L6's (four of them) in the output. The output circuitry is unique in that when there is no signal input, the tubes do not conduct, thereby reducing the heat you normally expect and also extending tube life. Later versions used transistors in the preamp but kept the tubes in the output.

For under $750 you can put together an dynamite combination. By the way, it does a great job for an E9 player.

This head weighs about 35 lbs.

I use a 15" EV 8 ohm speaker in a Hartke single 15 "Transporter" cabinet.

Mike Brewer

------------------
Mike Brewer

Mike Brown · From: Meridian, Mississippi USA

Chas, steel amps are designed to reproduce the demanding dynamic range of the steel guitar, therefore I recommend the Peavey Nashville 1000 for best performance. However, in 2000, I did a little experimenting myself with other Peavey amps and below are the results. I'll be glad to forward our latest catalog to you if you wish or you may contact me here at Peavey by phoning 1-877-732-8391.Mike Brown

Oh yes, I suggest that you try out the new Peavey Transtube 112EFX or 212EFX amplifiers. These are not designed for steel, but they work and sound quite well.
Member
From: Meridian, Mississippi USA
posted 08 December 2000 04:24 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been asked for several years if various non steel Peavey amps would sound good for steel guitar applications. Without having "tried them out" using a steel guitar, I am rather hesitant to recommend any amp other than a "bonified" Peavey steel for steel guitar, until I try it out myself.
I know that many players do not perform on a bandstand with a band, but rehearse using a CD or tape deck and a set of headphones. This past Saturday I took my steel guitar to what we call our demo room(actually,we call it "The Fishbowl" as it looks like a fishbowl storefront) here at Peavey that has just about every amplifier that we manufacture in it. Surprisingly, I found that there are a few low wattage Peavey amps that work very well for steel guitar at "less than stagelevel volumes". I have listed my preferences below. Feel free to check out the features of these amp on the Peavey website at "www.peavey.com"

Blazer 158-This amp surprised me as it had pretty good tone with a 8" speaker and all of the features(headphone out, CD/tape input, reverb) and 15 watts that steel players have been asking for. This one works well within reason. Here are the settings that I finally landed on for the clean channel;
Vol-5
Low-10
Mid-5
Hi-4
Rev-4

The distortion channel could be used for lap steel with no problem.

Transtube Envoy II-This amp is rated at 40 watts with a 10" speaker, external speaker jack, reverb and 3 band equalization.

Vol-5 1/2
Low-7 1/2
Mid-3
High-5
Rev-3
Note;Both MODERN and HIGH GAIN switches can be used for different EQ settings.

Same for the lead/distortion channel here; can be set for use with lap steel.

Transtube Studio Pro 112 II-I didn't like this one as much as the Envoy II, basically because of the voicing that I got from it, but it "worked", just not as good(in my opinion). Here are the settings that I came up with;
CLEAN CHANNEL
Switch at VINTAGE setting
Vol-6 at the maximum
Low-6
Mid-3
High-6

LEAD CHANNEL
Switch to MODERM setting appealed to me on this amp.
Vol-6 at the max
Pre Gain-6 1/2
Low-8 1/2
Mid-3
High-6
Post Gain-4

Note; High gain input distorted with these settings, use low gain input for steel guitar.

For tube enthusiasts, I tried the Prowler, which is a 45 watt, dual channel all tube amp. This amp has spring reverb, an external speaker jack and resonance control which helps control the floppiness of the low frequencies.

As I said, I was real excited about this "discovery" after I tried these amps out, and I don't mind recommending them for small rehearsal amps after I've tried them.

I know that this may come off sounding like as a "sales pitch", but it is not intended to be. I'm just trying to give players an idea of what amp will work for steel guitar. I have basically "blown off" this question in the past unless I had happened to try certain amps, but now I don't have a problem with this after verifying my suspiciousions.

Please understand that each steel guitar varies a bit in output level, so you may have to use the LOW GAIN input instead of the HIGH GAIN input in your situation.

I did try our KB series of keyboard amps(closed back) and a couple of our small bass amps(closed back) and they didn't appeal to me at all.

I hope that this helps players out.

Earnest Bovine
Member
From: Los Angeles CA USA
posted 08 December 2000 04:55 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do those Transtube amps have all the amp modeling capabilities of the Transformer amp that you had at Scotty's show in St Louis 3 months ago? I was impressed with the variety of sounds that I could get out of the Transformer 112.
Mark Tomeo
Member
From: Danville, PA USA
posted 09 December 2000 01:21 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been using a LeMay mod Nashville 400 with a rack mount Roland SD 3000 digital delay for steel, and a Peavey Chorus (2-12) for slide and electric work, hauling it all around.
This summer I got lazy and started leaving the 400 and the delay at home. I got the Chorus tweaked so it sounds great with an Emmons LeGrande II. The secret seems to be dipping the mids to like -5 or -6.
I use a couple of the preset delays and occasionally mix in the chorus effect for some shimmer. It sounds especially good mic'd at low to medium volumes with the signal run back a touch through the monitors.
McVey
unregistered posted 09 December 2000 02:29 PM edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mike!....Don't forget the Delta Blues 115...It has the warm tube tone, and still does not overdrive on the clean channel with steel...
Roger Crawford
Member
From: McDonough,Ga. USA
posted 09 December 2000 04:26 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Mike...Our guitar player (who usually uses a Fender Twin) came to practice the other night with a (rather old but in great shape)Special 130.When we took a break, I plugged my steel into it, and man was I surprised. It may not handle the low end of the C6th real well, but the E9th was clear, clean, and sounded great. We mike everything,I may try to talk him out of it!Never had a Peavey product that didn't do everything it's supposed to (and more most of the time). Thanks for a great product and you personnal attention to us steel junkies.
RC
Chris Dufrane
Member
From: Constable, NY, USA
posted 09 December 2000 06:25 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How's the Bandit? I've got a Bandit 65, in my room for my practice amp, since I'm only learning. This is a really good amp, but I find that I can't get the sound I'm looking for. It's great for the west coast sound, but I can't find the right adjustment for that mellow shimmering sound I like, ie. "lost in the feeling". All Peavey amps I've ever seen and tried were great amps. Great price and great sound. What else could a guy ask for.
mickd
Member
From: london,england
posted 10 December 2000 04:23 AM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've got a Peavey Pacer (about 20 years old) that I have been using as a straight guitar combo. I've only just started on PSG but when I plug my Sierra Session into it I have to have the volume controls on the amp practically turned right off else its just too loud - doesnt seem to make any difference which of the 2 inputs I use.
Lindley
Member
From: Statesville, NC...USA
posted 10 December 2000 07:11 AM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike,
How does the Stereo Chorus 212 do with the LeMay mod?
[This message was edited by Lindley on 10 December 2000 at 07:13 AM.]

Jimmie Misenheimer
Member
From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
posted 10 December 2000 03:59 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since we are talking Peavey Amps, let me share what I have found - at least to MY complete satisfaction. After 1 "Session 400", 2 "Session 400 Limiteds", ( one with a "mod kit" and one without), 4 "Session 500`s", 2 "Profex Twos",(one with a "mod kit" and one without), a couple of "Fenders", a "Standell", and an "Evans", I honestly believe the best "combo amp" that I've EVER heard is channel two of a "Renown". I let the first two of these I owned, I let get away from me, but I've still got the third one, and I ran across one a couple of weeks ago that became number four. They were all re-fitted with 15 inch B. W. speakers, and this last one now has a closed back, and is "ported" on both sides of the speaker baffle. I've used a rack with an "Ashley" preamp, which I MUCH prefer the E. Q. in, for three years now, so the 1 "Session 400" and 2 "Session 400 Limiteds" are just used as power-amp/speaker set-ups. This is as always just my opinion, but the only amp that I have owned that has ever completely satisfied MY EAR is a "RENOWN". Peace - Jimmie
Bobby Lee
Staff Member
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
posted 10 December 2000 06:36 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm moving this to the Electronics forum.
Kevin Mincke
Member
From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
posted 10 December 2000 08:09 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to try one of the older Artist tube models that came w/the 15". I saw one at a pawn shop in VERY GOOD condition for $125 and am still kicking myself! No,they didn't ahve a pedal steel to try it with. Were they good for steel?
Bobby Bowman
Member
From: Cypress, Texas, USA
posted 10 December 2000 09:57 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike,
I can't remember which amp you let me use at one of the shows (St. Louis, I think) in my booth, but it was one really fine amp. Ron Elliot as well as Buddy was most impressed with it and it just knocked my socks off.
Seems like it had two 12's in it.
BB
------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Sleepy John
unregistered posted 11 December 2000 03:03 AM edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike
I don't know if you tried out the SessionBass head or not, but I have with an Eden 2 10" cabinet and it makes for a killer guitar or steel amp. Peavey makes a Great 2 10" Bass cabinet with a horn as well as Eden. This is one way to get into a rack mounted rig. Try it, you just might be pleasantly surprised and it is a way to distribute the weight and not kill yourself carrying it. The SessionBass head only weighs 17 lbs, has an effects loop and delivers 200 watts into 4 ohms.
------------------
Sj

[This message was edited by Sleepy John on 11 December 2000 at 03:08 AM.]

Chris Schlotzhauer
Member
From: Colleyville, Tx. USA
posted 11 December 2000 07:21 AM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike, you guys need to re-issue the Special 130. Absolutely. Great guitar amp, and the tone on the steel is amazing. Just not heavy duty enough for C6 maybe. I know a guy that uses 2 130 heads (stereo) and separate speakers. Mine got stolen off the trailer. I miss it.
Dan Tyack
Member
From: Bellevue, WA USA
posted 11 December 2000 06:16 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Campbell of the Campbell Brothers (of Sacred Steel fame) uses an artist 130, I believe. He gets as good a steel tone as I have ever heard.
For blues I like the Classic 30 *a lot*. Not a lot of clean sounds there, but it kicks with my Franklin on R&B or blues gigs.

------------------ www.tyacktunes.com

John Russell
Member
From: Austin, Texas
posted 12 December 2000 07:04 PM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I started to buy a Peavey Artist, brought it home to try out. It was about the size of a Nashville 400, had a JBL speaker and tubes for the power amp, I believe. The amp was too shrill sounding for steel, too bright. Of course, testing it out in your living room and onstage are quite different. It might have made a great guitar amp and with my Boss GE7 EQ box, may have worked for steel.
I still have my old Peavey Musician 400, Mark III. It's a two channel head with a 6 band EQ (and phase shifter!) built in. I had a LeMay kit made up for it and it sounds pretty good with steel, using a Black Widow 15" speaker in an open back cab. The output jacks are a bit strange: One is labeled "direct 2 ohm" and has ratings of 210W at 4 ohms, 300W at 2 ohms. The other jack is labeled "X-former 4 ohm" with ratings of 200W at 8 ohms and 250W at 4 ohm. I guess it would sound really fat with two BW 15s in series.

It's especially good for playing both guitar and steel since you have two channels with diffent EQ settings a la Fender Twin. Even better, the FX loop works with both. The downside is the the weight and inconvenience of lugging a speaker cab plus your FX. I guess rack mount players do this all the time. I was thinking of using it as a power amp with my XR-700 powered mixer. Any suggestions, Mike B?

John R.

Mike Taylor
Member
From: Spokane,Wa,USA
posted 12 December 2000 09:22 PM profile edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another Peavey product that I used for steel was a Renown. It had 2 12'Scorpions, 160 watts and two switchable channels. It was a very versatile amp covering both straight guitar and steel guitar very well. Would have been a great steel amp with a 15'BW..
Mike
Spokane

Mike Brown
Member
From: Meridian, Mississippi USA
posted 13 December 2000 08:50 AM profile send email edit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As always, the players and customers out in the marketplace can provide a lot of feedback concerning past and present "non" pedal steel Peavey products.
I'll try to answer some of the replies to my post to the best of my ability. The new Peavey Transformer Series of amps are modeling amps. If you are not familiar with a "modeling" amp, various companies have them in their product line and I've heard them all. Some are very good at emulating other brands of amps. The Peavey Transformer is our modeling amp that was recently shown at the St. Louis Int'l Steel Guitar Convention. It does have our patented Transtube circuitry that is the best(in my opinion)in duplicating tube characteristics. I know that some folks will doubt this, but we have been manufacturing tube amplifiers since the mid '70's, so we do have quite a bit of experience with tube technology. Give a listen at your nearest Peavey dealer. Transtube amps and the Transformer amp are basically different models.

I did try the Delta Blues for steel. Naturally, the 30 watts is not quite enough for live performing, but in a practice room setting it may be.

I've heard that the Special 130 works fairly well for steel, but I've seen it used by fiddle players more. I would guess that there wouldn't be enough low end for my preference. It's hard for me to put my hands on some of the older amps to try. The Bandit 65 was the same preamp and speaker as the Special 130, so you should get the same results, only less headroom.

I haven't tried a Stereo Chorus 212 so I can't comment on this. Thanks for your input though. I haven't tried an Artist either, so maybe some of the Forumites can assist with this question?

Bobby, the amp that I loaned to you at the Scotty show was the Ranger 212. I posted information on this amp for steel not too long ago. I tried it myself and it sounded good!

I tried to locate a Sessionbass here at the factory, but we have discontinued this model.

Lloyd Green told me that he had played through a Renown 115 and loved the tone of this amp. The "115" version was manufactured for a short period of time and again, was never intended for steel guitar use. But, like I've said before, we obtain a lot of feedback from consumers.

The Peavey Musician that John mentions would have plenty of power for steel and two separate channels of equalization. Speaker choice would make a big difference for steel though. I guess that players who have access to this amp could check it out for
themselves.

Thanks for the input!

All times are Pacific (US)

jim milewski · From: stowe, vermont

Mike, the renown I had with 2 scorpions was a very good steel amp, I go through the classifieds looking for one, the only reason i don't have it now a guy traded me EVEN for a Session 500 with a BW 1502, the 500 (which I would not part with shy of $1000 is the BEST steel amp (although heavy) I have ever owned hands down, but I'm curious to see if the renown still sounds good to me, it was the 160 version

David Doggett · Posted 18 Sep 2002 11:35 am

Dear Chas,

You've gotten a lot of interesting information, but I suspect much of it may be confusing, because it just mentions various amps, effects, and speaker combinations that people like, at least for certain purposes. Let me try a different tack and spell out the unique things about amping a steel.

The volume pedal - to get the classic steel smooth attack and sustain, the pedal is backed off for the attack, and then swelled to get the sustain. That means your normal playing volume (the attack) uses only a small portion of the amps gain potential, maybe only a quarter. So to play along with a six stringer playing a 50 watt amp near wide open, you would need at least a 200 watt amp, maybe a 400 watter. The additional watts of output you have are what give you your pedal sustaining ability. Without it, when playing with a loud group you will find your pedal hitting its limit before you get all the sustain you want.

Harmonic distortion - because steel players use a lot of chords in high and low registers, the amp needs to play very clean to keep the chords from being muddy. The swell you give chords with your volume pedal add to this problem. A regular guitar's highest volume is at the attack. A little breakup there actually softens the attack and sounds good (that's one reason why people love the old tube amps). The breakup is over after the attack, leaving a clean single note or chord. But when you swell that steel chord with your volume pedal and the breakup comes in the middle of your note or chord, it sounds bad (fiddles can have the same problem because they can swell with the bow).

Frequency or pitch range - steels use a lot of range. Bass equipment may not have the high range. Small speaker guitar amps may not have the low range.

For all these reasons, it helps to start with an amp designed for steel. As an example let me describe some unique things about the Peavey Nashville 400, which was one of the first mass produced amps designed specifically for steel. It has 200 watts of very clean power (I just bought a used one for $200 - you can't beat a dollar per watt!). In addition to this, it has compression circuitry that senses breakup and temporarily damps the volume to prevent or minimize distortion. This gives a very smooth creamy sound even at high volume.

Not only does it have a wide frequency response, it is actually engineered for the specific frequencies played on a modern pedal steel guitar. There are 5 tone controls. If you look at the specs, and look at a chart that gives the frequencies for a chromatic scale, you will discover that the Low knob (which is actually a sub-bass) controls frequences below the lowest note on the steel. This adds and controls pick noise and undertones that can give a kind of acoustic sound not found on a lot of guitar amps. The next lowest knob (misnamed Mid - actually the bass in terms of the notes being played) controls the frequencies from the lowest open string to half way up the neck on the middle strings. The highest knob (Presence) adds and controls frequencies above the highest string at the highest fret. In other words, bar noise and overtones. The next highest knob (High) controls frequencies from the middle strings half way up the neck to the highest string two octaves up the neck. So only two of these knobs actually control the notes you are playing, the other two are for texture. The middle knob (Shift) controls the point at which the Mid and Treble knobs overlap.

If you set all these knobs straight up (in the middle of their range), you will have a gorgeous steel sound that will take hours to find (if ever) on many non-steel amps.

The 15" speaker voiced for steel also helps. It makes it very easy to get the organ-like lows, and yet the highs are not too thin or shrill.

Effects - because the Peavey 400 and other steel amps are so clean, for blues and rock you may want to add some tube effects and distortion. So you will need something like the Goodrich Steel Driver, other FX add ons, or one of the better steel amps with built in effects.

I'm not saying the Peavey, or any other, steel amps are the only ones. There are a lot of very versatile and interesting sounding amps out there. But I do think the Peavey Nashville amps are the touchstone. Many top pros, including Buddy Emmons, have played them a lot and spoken well of them.

I think it is wise for beginners to start with a standard steel amp, to get a great steel sound with little or no effort. Then follow your individual tone tastes, musical genres, and playing style to find other amp-effects-speaker combinations that give you what you want. The steel amps will give you good right from the start. Some of the others may with some fiddling, but a lot of them wont.

Hope this helps. Good luck steelin'!

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 18 September 2002 at 09:57 PM.]

Dave Birkett · From: Oxnard, CA, USA

I see Nashville 400 amps in the Buy and Sell section all the time for around $350. You can't beat that.

Sidney Malone · From: Buna, TX

Chas, You'll probably have to try some different amps to get satisfied with the sound you are looking for. I owned about 6 different amps including some of the ones listed above but after 2-3 months of playing through them, I was no longer satisfied with the sound which made me not want to practice.

Then I tried one of Gerry Walker's Stereo Steel amps and it turned out to be the one that did it for me, my search was over.

It is a hassle to try different amps because you don't always know right off if it's going to be the one. One good thing though, I've been fortunate enough to always be able to sell my unneeded amps for at least what I had in them.

Rex Thomas · From: Thompson's Station, TN

I thought you might find this thread of some insight when I was shopping for a steel amp. I'd used a Vibrosonic (mid '70's Twin with a 15"), sold it, then decided I wanted another steel amp but wasn't sure which direction. The Nashville 1000 works wonderfully for me, but you might like something else. Anyway: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/002124.html
All my best to you in finding what you're looking for.

Forum Index > Electronics		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: