| Author |
Topic: The sound"-Is it the instrument or the player? |
Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
|
Posted 27 May 2004 8:48 am |
|
All this talk lately about the Rickenbacker moan...
I'll agree each instrument has it's own distinct voice. A Telecaster does not sound like a Les Paul. A Stringmaster does not sound like a Bakelite Rick. But at what point does the hardware not matter and the individual player's hands shape the tone?
I bet Jerry Byrd would sound like Jerry Byrd if he played a Stringmaster and likewise Leon McAuliffe would sound like himself on a Rickenbacker.
Example: I recently bought a Yamaha Silent Guitar for use as a travel instrument. I took it to a jam session last Sunday and had it plugged into a battery powered Crate amp.
When I played it I got very mellow tones out of it both with fingers and flat pick. I let another musician try it, this guy was a very good guitarist, same amp settings,
same volume... His tone was thin and tinny.
Opinions?
------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 27 May 2004 at 09:58 AM.] |
|
|
 |
Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
|
Posted 27 May 2004 9:06 am
|
|
It's in the fingers...
How the pick strikes the string, where on the string you pick it, what else yer doin' with the bar. Jimmy Day could make his strings speak words... |
|
|
|
C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
|
Posted 27 May 2004 9:14 am
|
|
Gerald,
IMO, the sound is a product of many things, not the least of which is the player of course. But it is NOT limited to the player's hands as has been espoused a number of times on this forum.
There is NO way Jerry Byrd can make a Rickenbacher fry pan sound like a Rickenbacher bakelite. The sounds of these two instruments are distinctly different. Just as a Telecaster sounds distinctly different from a Les Paul; EVEN with the same player playing them.
Yet the player DOES come thru. I can still hear Buddy no matter what he plays just about. Whether he plays his "blade", his EMCI, his Sierra or his LeGrande's it is still buddy, but the sounds are different.
When Bob Brozman switches to any one of a myriad of guitars, one can still know it is Bob, but the sounds are still unique to a given type of instrument.
This is even true of protege's. Wayne Tanner can make it appear almost exactly that it is Jerry. But one can still tell it isn't.
So again, I believe it is a number of things that figure into it.
carl |
|
|
|
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 27 May 2004 9:41 am
|
|
| Both. |
|
|
|
Donald Ruetenik
From:
Pleasant Hill, California, USA
|
Posted 27 May 2004 2:41 pm
|
|
| Ditto. |
|
|
|
George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
|
Posted 27 May 2004 9:46 pm
|
|
I mentioned in another thread about my ugly Ric frypan. Just after I bought it, I was playing with the kamaina's at the Elks in Waikiki. Jerry popped in and when I saw him, I invited him to play this ugly beast. I can tell you for a fact, it is NOT the guitar, it happens immediately behind the finger picks. He brought out the BEAUTY in the BEAST !!!  |
|
|
|
Andy Alford
|
Posted 28 May 2004 3:36 am
|
|
| Its nice to hear a good player with a good guitar who can play.The moan may sound like the dying if the player is bad.Alot of playing sounds like the moans of pain not skilled steel playing."The sound" - Is it from a poor player or a skilled one?The finest guitar and amp will not make a pro out of a bad player who needs much work before he goes public.There is no player steel guitar, like a player piano.Remember people have to listen to those moans. |
|
|
|
Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
|
Posted 1 Jun 2004 7:48 am
|
|
I've heard good players make marginal or even flat out [i]bad[/] gear sound at least OK, and at best, fantastic. I've NEVER heard a bad player make even the highest end gear sound good.
For me, I'd rather hear a good player play an average or even sub-average piece of gear than vice-versa. IMO, fingers/touch carry a lot more weight.
YMMV,
TJW |
|
|
|
seldomfed
From:
Colorado
|
Posted 1 Jun 2004 11:51 am
|
|
quote:
Example: I recently bought a Yamaha Silent Guitar for use as a travel instrument. I took it to a jam session last Sunday and had it plugged into a battery powered Crate amp.
When I played it I got very mellow tones out of it both with fingers and flat pick. I let another musician try it, this guy was a very good guitarist, same amp settings,
same volume... His tone was thin and tinny.
The batteries were dying
To paraphrase JB (from his book and video tape) "the sound goes from your head, thru your heart to your fingers". I agree both the player and guitar together create the sound. But I also wonder (twighlight zone stuff coming) if the mind influences more than just how the fingers move. I think the 'heart' or 'soul' of a person can change sound of a bad instrument. Perhaps it is nothing more than how their finger muscles contract after years of practice. But I think the expression that's felt when you hear a great player is more than just fingers, guitar and amp.
------------------
Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon"
www.book-em-danno.com
|
|
|
|
Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
|
Posted 1 Jun 2004 12:16 pm
|
|
Good points Chris (the batteries were fresh BTW).
Over the years I have attempted to play various instruments and have achieved varying levels of success (haven't touched the Cajun accordion in years though, too loud). Out of all my experiments I must admit that the steel guitar is the most revealing of the inner spirit.
I truly feel that the steel guitar is the ultimate bio-feedback meter. Everything you are feeling comes out through the bar. If you are feeling tense your tightness will be emphasized and broadcast by the bar. Likewise if you are relaxed the music will flow.
You can fake it to a degree on fretted stringed instruments. You can just plaster your fingers down in a chord shape and strum away. But there is something about that inanimate metal bar that transmits your immediate state of Zen.
Am I nuts or what? (or just bored at work)
------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
|
|
|
|
John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
|
Posted 1 Jun 2004 10:50 pm
|
|
| My true belief is that, it's mainly in the ‘Left-Hand’. If you watch the left-hand Tremelo?/Vibrato?, you'll see the ‘SOUL’ of the player tryin to get out! [My Best Discription] Of course, that's not meant to take away from a good-quality instrument and accessories also! Sincerely, “Big John” Bechtel |
|
|
|
Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
|
Posted 2 Jun 2004 7:29 am
|
|
Expression is mostly in the left hand. Tonal quality is mostly in the right. The instrument affects tone to some degree, as does the electronic system (amp, effects, etc.), but the right hand defines "the sound" more than any other element.
------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
|
|
|
