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Topic: 17k Verses 23k Pick up |
PLAYSTEEL9
From:
Chandler ARIZONA
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Posted 3 May 2001 10:38 am |
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maybe one of you guys will know the answer,
i have two pickups, 17 k george l and a 23k bill lawrence, which pick up would be hotter, more gain, substain?
the 23k pick up has two rows of magnets, i asume it is a humbucker
wayne
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Those that make music, pray twice.
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 3 May 2001 10:59 am
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The "K" or dc resistance of a pickup has nothing to do with how it works electronically. There have been many threads on that.
However, the Lawrence pickup with two rows of magnets sounds like a 710 model and they are relatively high output pickups. |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 3 May 2001 5:04 pm
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All other things being equal, the 23K should have more output but a little less high end. However, all things are not equal. The real question is: Which one do YOU like the best?
Put one in your guitar, play it for a couple of weeks, then make a little tape of yourself just playing some stuff (up the neck, down the neck, fast, slow, etc.). It can be just a cheap cassette on a home stereo using a mic if that's all that's handy.
Then swap the other one in and do the same thing. Use the same amp settings, play the same material. If you use a mic to record, you may want to do the swap while leaving the mic in the same place. You don't really need to change strings if you don't want to, and it may actually be better if you don't. You can play/swap/play all in a couple of hours.
Once you have both pickups recorded side by side using the same settings, you'll be able to see the differences right away. I did this with a George L 10-1 and E66, and you could definitely tell the differences this way when they're side by side so to speak. If you play one pickup for a while and then swap it out for another, if you don't have a recording you have nothing to compare it to other than a vague memory.
My guess is you'll probably like both of them, but one may edge the other out just a teeny bit. That's where it boils down to the one that YOU like.
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jerry wallace
From:
Artesia , NM (deceased)
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Posted 3 May 2001 5:55 pm
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Wayne,,The George L and the Bill lawrence are both Humbuckers..The George L uses a blade type of magnet rather than indivial pole pieces..
I agree the best way to decide is to try them both..However,sitting in your home trying them and playing on stage in a band at higher volume levels will show different results..
I dont agree with Jack that the DC resistance has nothing to do with the sound of a pickup..It has a lot to do with it..It is NOT the only factor in deteriming the "sound" of a pickup, but it is a major one..
I currently build and wind my own pickups {single coils}.You can use alinco 5 or 7 or several other types of magnets..You can use #42 #43 or other wire gauges..In humbuckers,The polarity of the magnets and the winding direction of the wire is a consideration..
The tension applied to the wire when it is wound on to the bobbin,the insulation on the wire, are also factors..
Yes there are a number of factors to consider other than DC resistance..But I think you will find that generally speaking,the more windings, i.e. the higher the DC resistance,The more low end or bass you will hear where at some point the sounds begins to get "muddy"..The highs will become more predominant as the DC resistance goes down, the trade off,at some point,less lows and lower output..
The two pickups you are refering to are made differently with one having a blade magnet and one double rows of exposed pole pieces..I have used them both also the BL910
In the end its your ear your going to have to satisfy,so get some small aligator clips to make switching easier and "road test them" on your steel both on and off stage..
I wind my single coils to a DC resistance that I like the tone of..I dont need to know the capaitance, the inductance,the gauss measurements etc..I know what DC resistance sounds good to my ear with all other factors being the same..
My personal opinion Wayne is that when you "cancell" out the hum as humbuckers do by using reverse phasing of the coils and/or magnets,unfortunatly you also cancell out part of the frequency response of the pickup..Yes you lose the hum,but there is a trade off.I dont feel the humbuckers have the warmth, body,string separation, frequency response or the "punch" that a single coil has..Again the trade off the hum..But other than studio situations the hum is not a problem for me..
I hope this helps some Wayne
Wayne,check out my web pageAnd the pickup related photos...
http://communities.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic
Jerry
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Jerry Wallace- "98 Zum: D-10,8+8, "96 Zum: D-10,8+5,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
[This message was edited by jerry wallace on 03 May 2001 at 08:25 PM.] [This message was edited by jerry wallace on 03 May 2001 at 08:28 PM.] [This message was edited by jerry wallace on 03 May 2001 at 08:43 PM.] |
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Jeff Peterson
From:
Nashville, TN USA
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Posted 3 May 2001 8:12 pm
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| Horse apples!.......Bill Lawrence 610-974-9544.....all things will be made clear, Grasshopper. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 4 May 2001 3:01 am
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A pickup is an "alternating current" device. DC resistance is only applicable to a "direct current" device. All the DC resistance measurement tells you is how much DC resistance is in the wire that you use to wind the pickup. (Basic electronics 101 -  )
I can wind two pickups to the same "DC resistance" and have different results.
What is the "Q" of the pickup? What are the Henry's of the pickup? What is the Inductive Reactance of the pickup at say a reference frequency of 400Hz? What is the permeability of the magnets, what is the frequency response of the pickup over the audio spectrum that the pickup must operate, etc, etc, All of these factors, and more, must be considered in design engineering of pickups to get the desired pickup qualities and to make them consistently the same from pickup to pickup.
If you measure the DC resistance of any Bill Lawrence 710 pickup, each one will be different but each pickup will have the same output and the same frequency response curve.
I won't disagree there have been some very good pickups built non-scientifically using the "cut and try" method (build a pickup and try it and then start modifiying or rebuilding til the desired results are obtained). |
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jerry wallace
From:
Artesia , NM (deceased)
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Posted 4 May 2001 7:37 am
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Wayne,I apologize if I turned your question into a "debate"..That was not my intentions...I just wanted to answer your question..Email me or give me a call if I can be of any further help..
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Jerry Wallace- "98 Zum: D-10,8+8, "96 Zum: D-10,8+5,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
[This message was edited by jerry wallace on 04 May 2001 at 08:38 AM.] |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 4 May 2001 8:23 am
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Jerry, it's not your fault, if any it's mine for turning it into a "debate". Just happens pickup "DC resistance" is something that wakes me up
If the question would have been which pickup, "the brand x model or the brand y model" it wouldn't have got into electronics theory. Would have spawned a debate on which pickup is better, tho as everyone's personal choice would be the better one, or the "brightest one", etc. |
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