Anyone Ever Play Thru a Twin?

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Ha.
But I never had. Tonite at our rehearsal studio we got screwed--each room is supposed to have standard gear, nailed down, but it always seems to walk from room to room and this time we were on the short end. After screaming bloody hell we got some action--

---an aside: in a previous thread I asked about going through the board. Well Bob Hoffnar wins the golden thumb pick on that one--I went through the board last week and the sound truly bit. I swore never again. But it looked like I was stuck again. Then the manager wheeled in a Twin.
Hot dog, did I sound good tonite! This was a master volume silver face and I have no idea what complaint a person could have with the sound. Man, what a pleasure to have that sound coming back at me.
It makes me kinda glad that I have a '66 BF Showman on its way in a week or so. WooHoo!
Man, I swore I would never become a tube head but.......

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Welcome Jon to the land of a real sound pal.
I swore the same thing you swore. Why do you think I sold you that great Evans Amp pal. I just won't play it anymore. It's a great amp and I love the way it sounded; but when I had to plug into a twin several years ago>I got hit with the same thing you got hit with>and boy did the sky clear up for me. That was the sound I always wanted and forever looked for and tried to achieve with every kinda effect and amp and whatever; but plugging my guitar right into a tube amp(Fender now)>was what all that other stuff could never do.
Man I'm happy for ya. I've been thinkin' of going to a Blackface single or dual Showman myself. And have two cabinets and use one cab on smaller gigs and both on larger ones.
We don't play Rock and Roll/Country; so nobody on our stage is ever loud enough that I need a 300watt solid state amp>We just play Country Music and Western Swing>so a 100watt tube amp is no problem at all for that style of music; and to me>"sounds like it fits the part".
Now>what are ya gunna do with the Evans????
If you don't want it anymore; I might take it back from ya; because I feel bad that Darrell built it especially for me; and I don't have it. But it will still just sit in my room and not get played.
Let me know when ya get the Showman; I have some tips for that setup; that I think you will dig pal.
Ricky

Steve Feldman · From: Central MA USA

I use a Vibrasonic with my Emmons and love it. Course, I have the 'big guns' (rack system) upstairs, but I love the variety I get out of the Fender - it's particularly good with the Emmons...wouldn't trade it.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Hi Jon,
I picked up a 70's Silver Face Twin w/master volume about a year ago and have been using it exclusively since then. I brought my Nashville 400 to a gig last sat night just to "make sure" before I put it in the classifieds. I also have a Session 500 collecting dust.

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

A picture is worth 1K words:

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 18 February 2001 at 09:42 PM.]

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Just so anybody reading this doesn't miss my almost humor and think that my title question is serious and think me a complete idiot (partial idiot is ok), of course I know that Twins are a well established thing--even without a picture (great pic, Dave). I've avidly read every post on the subject for the last couple and half years. Frankly, I figured that you-all had a little cult thing going and that it was all hype. But I've been learning a whole lot lately. The biggest lesson of late is that nothing, and I mean NOTHING that I do in my living room has any sonic relationship to what I do when playing with a bunch of instruments (like, for instance, a band, you know?). So it's under those conditions that you start appreciating the finer points of how your rig behaves when pushed. Does it blare? Does it bark? Does it shriek?
Well words fall short but up to now Ricky's Evans really jumped up and bit you--it's a live one. Feels like it's got a ton of barely restrained energy just waiting to be released. Man, that's exciting.
But that Twin--I don't know. Is this what people call "sponginess"? Like when you step on the volume pedal the sound gets deeper--deeper as in dimension, weight, substance. It doesn't just get louder--it gets fatter--the room gets a little bigger--
Man, I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm babblin' stoopid now.

Hey Ricky--I have no interest in ditching the Evans--it's great and it is a perfect light-weight great sounding powerhouse for occasions that warrant it. But I think you know me some--if it is, like, REALLY important to you to have it back, let's talk. I assure you, it's not going to gather dust here but I don't want to stand in your way. We'd have to put it on a cosmic scale and determine where it belongs.

Danny Hullihen · From: Harrison, Michigan

Here's something worth considering I think. If you like the sound od the old Fender Twin, you might want to check out Peavey's new Ranger 212. This is an all-tube amp with 120 watts of power, and a few goodies the Twins don't have.

Just some food for thought here....

Chris DeBarge · From: Boston, Mass

Looks to me like Lloyd put a 15" JBL in that twin. Of course!

BTW, just finished recording an album with my '66 Twin. Hello! What a sound, too bad I can't play!

Rick Johnson · From: Wheelwright, Ky USA

Jon,
I have a '66 Dual Showman that I used the
vibrato circuit and put reverb in it. Basicly
the same as the BFTR. I also have a '66 Showman that I can use a Fender outboard
Reverb on. What a setup. Heavenly!!
These amps are nice. I considered
putting my Dual Showman in cabinet and using
a 15" JBL. Only problem is the weight.
Two pieces are easier to carry. Consider
putting reverb in your Showman. You will
love it.

Rick

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Rick Johnson

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Sure! One of my favorite amps is my BF T/R. Not quite enough power for big venues, and not quite enough lows for my taste, but a beautiful sound and tone, nevertheless. The reverb is the BEST I have ever heard, and the louder you play...the better it gets!

Kinda reminds me of Carnegie Hall.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Hey Danny--you bet. The several mentions of that Ranger 212 over the last couple of months have sure caught my attention. Sounds really impressive. But the whole point of the Showman choice is, as Rick says, weight. When I came to realize what the Showman essentially is, I thought AHA! A Twin without a hernia. I checked out the Ranger specs and it's up there. I even asked Mike Brown if Peavey was going to make a Ranger head but the answer was no.

Cliff Swanson's recent report is what really got me going. Now if I can just get the seller (from ebay) to answer my email and tell me if he got my check (he should have) I will breathe easier. I'm a little nervous right now--no response.

About reverb--I have been using an RV-3 for a while and am quite content with it but I'll admit that I'm turning a new page in terms of sound with this Fender tube thing and I suppose it's possible that before long I'll be requiring the real-deal Fender tube/spring thing. I'm hoping to get by with the RV though.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Hey Jon; about the Evans. Man you know me too pal. If your diggin' it> that means more to me than anything. So stay with it and I'm not that sentimental about it; as long as it's being put to good use.
Fenders reverb design is the best I've ever heard also; and nothing else piped through that rig will sound as well IMHO>and you will soon hear yourself. I think those Fender tube driven Reverb head units are killer; if the Fender amp/head doesn't have one in it. Anything else in line from your volume pedal to the amp(besides a Fender reverb if needed); will take away from that true sound>IMHO again

So anyone have a Single Showman or Dual Showman; they want to sell or better yet swap me for something

Also I've hear from folks that there was a cabinet that Fender used to make that went with those Showmans along time ago>that has a 15" in it and some sort of porting or something(I did'nt understand)>around that speaker; that they said just exploded that sound out>anyone know what I'm talking about?????>I would like to learn more about what that is; I think there is a cool idea there that I've had in my head; but I don't know how to explain it; and when this person told me about this kinda speaker cabinet; it made alot of since.
Have fun.
Ricky

Tommy Detamore · From: Floresville, Texas

Also a good choice-Music Man HD115 150. Single 15'' speaker, 150 watts. Good candidate for military-spec 6L6's. I did one like that and it came out nice. Great for recording! If you can find one, they are usually cheap enough that you can put a JBL or whatever in it, have it re-tubed and biased, and still come out ok. Mine came with a newly-reconed EV and it seems fine to me. These amps have a solid-state preamp, so the purists may howl, but maybe that's good for a steel. Doesn't seem to hurt the "warmth factor" of the amp. the reverb, however, is not as good as most Twins. Kinda thin.But maybe it could be tweaked.

TD

Sage · From: Boulder, Colorado

Jon- don't worry about "babblin stoopid", all of us tube guys do. It is wonderfully imposible to describe tube tone, but you always want to try! Must be why we seem so wierd to those on the other side. I think more indescribable variations are possible when you pick out new tubes. I got some Mesa/Boogie tubes that are "hard" and matched, and I think it helps a lot for a clean steel sound.

Bob Carlson · From: Surprise AZ.

I've been a Fender man since 1954 when I was the proud owner of one of the first Fender Strats. That guitar could draw a crowd with out anyone playing It.
I've been playing steel for three years now and since the only amp I had was a Fender Twin I used It with the steel. I planed to buy a 400 or something because It just wasn't cool to play a steel through a Fender. But after listening to my old LP's tapes etc I could hear a lot of the tube sound on steel.
The best tube sound I've heard Is Jay McDonald playing with Buck just before Brumley started with "Togather Again". And the great thing Is I still have my tube sound for my Tele. The Strat sound isn't cool anymore for country boys.
I'd like to try a 1000 but March 3rd I'll be 69. But then the way I lived back when I was playing every Fri & Sat night and holding down a day job also (six days a week) I might get more use out of It now!

Hey.....did you notice that guy In the picture has a Lloyd Green Model Steel?

Bob Carlson

Uff Da!

[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 08 February 2001 at 08:38 PM.]

Rick Johnson · From: Wheelwright, Ky USA

Rick

Any 1/15 or 1/12 Blacbface Showman from about
'62-'67 has the tone ring in it. I understand
it was developed trying to tame the JBL speaker. The proto types made for Dick Dale
in the early '60s just blew. To much pressure
in the cabinet. Even today JBL speakers are
not recommended for sealed cabinets. I have
lots of old amps and cabs. I make replicas
as a hobby. I tried to reproduce the setup used for the tone ring. It sounds great for
guitar. However the bass guitar is something
else. With the volume on 7 and the bass control on 4 everything is great. Increasing
the bass any more cause distortion. About
1/3 of the amps power in the bass control.
Keepin it down helps.
I buy all the old Showman cabs that I can
find. Hope you can find one too.

Thanks
Rick

------------------
Rick Johnson

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Hey Rick; thanks for the info on that "Tone Ring" thing.
So are you saying that is it great>that's why you are buying all you can? Or did you say just the prototypes were no good enough for what we do?
I hear you build a nice cab? what are you building them out of? Can you build me a single 15" cab that looks like a Fender product? And how much you charge Rick.
Thanks pal.
Ricky

Rick Johnson · From: Wheelwright, Ky USA

Rick,
I doubt any prototype Showman cabs exist. Unless Dick Dale(King of Surf) has them.
The tone ring cabinets are what made it into production. It actually is a port for the
speaker cab. I've made several of these
as replicas. I have some pics.
Email me for a quote on one. They are rather
large, 36x24x11.5 and very heavy.
Thanks

Rick

------------------
Rick Johnson

Rick Johnson · From: Wheelwright, Ky USA

Rick,
I doubt any prototype Showman cabs exist. Unless Dick Dale(King of Surf) has them.
The tone ring cabinets are what made it into production. It actually is a port for the
speaker cab. I've made several of these
as replicas. I have some pics.
Email me for a quote on one. They are rather
large, 36x24x11.5 and very heavy.
Thanks

Rick

------------------
Rick Johnson

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Jon- The two best amps that I ever had the pleasure of playing through, were the old Fender Twin with 2 twelve inch JBL's and the Fender Showman with one 15 inch JBL.They were the real deal and just got too heavy for me. I wish now, that I had kept them both.Ricky, they had "the sound" , but I think I liked the Showman 15 incher a tad better....Why can't we have amps with that sound today??? I tried a Nashville 400 and a 1000 and it didn't give me that feeling that those old Fenders did....al

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Amen to that Al.
I am basically trying to break down the load weight a bit; by having the Showman head and a cabinet separate. My Twin is great; but I'm looking for a second option/rig>"so to speak".
I've been "solid state" free now for about 4 years and lovin' it. I actually tried a solid state amp a week or so ago just to remind myself that there is no character in a solid state amp. Yes indeed; alot of the great ones play through a solid state amp and get a good sound; but mainly playing for the head room that they offer. I like the responce a tube amp gives me. It justs breaths man!!! It will produce every character of picking inflections and dynamics I through at it. I just can't get that out of a solid state amp>it just delivers one signal and just won't move with my picking differences>"if ya know what I mean">and those of you that are solid state free>do know what I mean.
It's a beautiful world ain't it?
Ricky

Danny Hullihen · From: Harrison, Michigan

Hi Al:
"Quote" Why can't we have amps with that sound today???

We do have amps with "that sound" today. For example, the Peavey Ranger 212 is one of them. All tube power, 120 watts, and designed to replicate the Black Face Fender Twin. However, you still have "the weight" factor that the old Twins had with JBL's and E.V.'s. 85lbs. Perhaps it's just not possible to build an "all tube" amp with this kind of power, and be feather weight at the same time? If such is the case, I've yet to see it from anyone?

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

somebody here (forum),I forget who, said this :

"You only carry it for a few minutes...you get to listen to it all night"

it's my "new philosophy of life"

Rick Johnson · From: Wheelwright, Ky USA

Danny,
I have to answer you question about why we
don't have this Fender Sound today.
Cost, Point to Point wiring is more labor
intensive. Solid State is cheap. We can
only dream.
One more comment on the Showman. Hendrix
played one. Bass players love them.
Steel players appreciate them!
Who else ever offered such an amp!!

Rick

------------------
Rick Johnson

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

New speaker designs with "Neodymium" magnets may give some relief in the weight department. While these are still in the developmental stages, they could reduce the weight of an amp by 5-10 lbs. per speaker. As to whether or not they will affect the tone (substantially) is still unknown, but they will be quite expensive.

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