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Topic: Volume Pedal Pots - 1 More Time |
Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 9 Jun 2000 8:28 pm |
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I am familar with the company that makes the pot your are describing. I think it is "Spectrol",and I hope I have spelled it correctly. Actually they are stamped in Canada and assembled in the U.S.A. I am the one that turned this company on to the world of steel guitar, and got them making this particular pot. I decided I did not want to mess with pots and told a lot of different people to contact the company with my specifications. I suppose word got to Bill Lawrence and Paul Senior. I think the guy Paul Senior is dealing with at the company is David Reed. David Reed and I worked on the taper for some time. I am the one who actually designed the taper. Paul Senior is correct, it is a smoother better taper. The retail price of $15.00 is wonderful, because the Clarostat pots are going for around $28.00 retail. My opinion is that the quality is just as good as the Clarostat pots. They are both made of hot molded carbon.
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 10 Jun 2000 2:08 am
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Good Info. Finally a replacement for the Clarostat model, which had a monopoly on the volume pedal market. I'll have to check into these further and see if I can find a electronics parts house that can get these.
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 10 Jun 2000 7:21 am
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| I'm assuming that these pots are standard size and would fit a variety of pedals, ie. Emmons? |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 10 Jun 2000 8:37 am
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Sorry, I was wrong about the name being Spectrol. That is another company that does make pots, but not the kind steel players need. Now to the name of the Company I was talking about. The name is State Electronics Toll Free number-1-800-631-8083
Address: 36 Route 10
East hanover New Jersey 07936
David Reed Inside Sales--Phone 973-887-2550 Voice mail extension 120
E-Mail---dreed@state-elec.com
Here is the factory prices David Reed quoted me: 50 pieces $13.45,100 pieces $9.95, 250 pieces $8.20, 500 pieces $7.62, 1000 pieces $7.49.
If you look at the address of this company, no wonder Bill Lawrence knew about them, he lives near them.
Take my word for it, these are good pots that work exactly like the Clarostat pots. Jack you are correct about the Clarostat control of the market. They could charge anything they wanted and get away with it. The "FACT" is this, if you wanted a POT, you had no choice, except pay the price and smile! Now, you have a 2nd choice. If a 2nd choice is bad, blame me!
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 10 Jun 2000 9:43 am
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| My only other question is the ruggedness of the pot. The Clarostat was made to Military specs, which included being waterproof, thicker resistance element, better wiper contacts, etc. All of that contributed to longer life. How does this one compare mechanically??? |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 10 Jun 2000 9:50 am
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Jack, with all you just said, seems to me the people selling the Clarostat pots should guarantee them longer than when you walk out the door. Do you know anyone guaranteeing them for 10 days, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. How about 10 minutes? Try sinking your Clarostat pot in a can of water over night! If they are rated at a million revolutions, why are guys complaining about poping and cracking in less than 10,000 revolutions? It is my opinion, for what that is worth, that the pots State Electronics is making are just as good. They will last just as long in my opinion, and they are made just as good.
My pedal has "NO" pot and I have to guarantee it for a full year! If you pay $28.00 for a POT, why can't you get a guarantee that it won't PoP and Crack for at least 30 days???????????????
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Jun 2000 1:27 pm
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| I must be the luckiest person in the world when it comes to pots. Four or five of them have lasted me through 35 years of playing. I did have one fail after only 3 or 4 years, but I was playing 8-12 hours a day, 7 days a week at the time. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 10 Jun 2000 2:20 pm
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Donny, a pot will usually last me two to three years, playing weekends. I just replaced the pot in a Goodrich 120 that I bought at St Louis in either 96 or 97. However, I am not constantly up and down with the volume pedal like I see some do. But, if this other manufacturer's pot is not made to ruggedized mil specs they are going to generally fail a lot faster and the people that can't get 6 months out of a pot are going to be replacing them much sooner.
I know Keith is selling his infrared pedal, and I have no problem with that, but the fact is there are a helluva lot of 500K ohm pot pedals in use and still the majority of new pedals being sold.
This new replacement pot apparently is electronically equivalent to the Clarostat but if it is not mechanically equivalent too then the $5.00 or even $10.00 difference in price is not worth it as most people will spend more than that replacing them more often.
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Bill Crook
From:
Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance
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Posted 11 Jun 2000 5:32 am
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Very well said, Jack.
I use a dual 500k pot, because I like the "Myrick Mod" set-up on my pedal. The Clarostat folks are the only ones that make a dual, Military(sp?) spec pot. Like Jack said..... "If the mechinical stuff isn't as good as the carbon resist, you haven't gained anything."
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 6:33 am
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Jack, during this POTENTIOMETER discussion, and past discussions, everyone has overlooked one of the most important points.
What is the "exact" degree of rotation? If you look at the specifications of any POT, the degree of rotation is listed. The rotation can be anything. The degree of rotation is just as important as the taper. Seems to me the old Allen Bradley pots were 312 degrees of rotation. I have noticed differences in the degrees of rotation of different POTS in steel guitar pedals. There are "big" differences in some.
If the rotation value is not correct, there will be rotation left, either at the start or the finish. What this means is this: When the person winds the string ,he has a choice of it either not going fully on, or fully off. This problem is compounded in the ,"so called", Lowboy pedals, because they have less movement. Since the Lowboy pedals "have the same" pot as regualar pedals, and move a little less up and down, how could they work the same as a regular height pedal?
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 8:22 am
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| Keith, I believe some of the Low Boy pedals use a different pivot point and/or diameter pulley to allow the same rotation with a shorter throw. I believe my Goodrich L-120 has the same pulley and pivot point as the regular pedals, it just happens to work. I don't recall that we used a different pulley on the Dekley Low Boy pedals either, and they used the full travel of the pot, maybe the pivot point was moved. |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 9:14 am
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Jim,as you say, the L-120 has the pivot point moved further back. What movement of the pivot point actually changes, "most", is overall height. Steel Guitar pedals are made in a wedge shape, like this--- >. The further the hinge point is to the rear, the less height there is in the arc at the hinge poing. With pedal height, there are really 3 height points involved. Height in front, with the pedal fully up, and fully down. Height at the hinge point with the pedal fully up and fully down. Height at the rear end, with the pedal fully up or fully down.
We have a new "ulra-low-profile" pedal. Like the L120,our hinge point is moved further back. Actually 1/8 inch further back than the L120.
We are lower at the hinge point, and lower in the rear end. We are exactly the same height in the front end as the L120. We could be lower, but you can not have 1 3/8 inch of movement in front and have less than 1 3/8 separation between the two pedal halfs in front. Reguarless of what happens in the back part of the pedal, the movement of the front is what determines total distance in volume change. Therefore, we could build a "ultra-low-profile" pedal, which was lower than the L120 but moved much further. The problem then becomes the upward pitch of the pedal, which becomes uncomfortable.
If the pulley that goes on the pot has a much larger diameter than the POT shaft, this slows the taper and limits the degree of rotation. Several years ago,John Hugey took his Emmons pedal and had the pulley cut down for these reasons. I have Terry Bethel's L120 pedal at my shop right now. It does not move up and down as far as that Companies standard pedal. If up and down movement is different, and the pots in both pedals are the same, seems to me there would have to be a difference.
Jack, since you play a Franklin, and Paul Franklin Sr, says these pots are the same only smoother, I would think you would want to try them. I think it is wonderful that there is more than "ONE" pot steel guitar players can buy. I think Paul is a great guitar builder, and it is great to see him with this new POT.
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Theresa Galbraith
From:
Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 11:04 am
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Keith,
Thanks alot, dad will guaranty these pots until January 2001.
These pots have copper conductors and are just as rugged as the Allen Bradley Clarostat. Theresa
For more info:
Franklin Guitar Company
712 May Drive
Madison, Tennessee 37115
#615-865-4754[This message was edited by Theresa Galbraith on 12 June 2000 at 12:06 PM.] |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 1:48 pm
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| Keith, I have a Franklin guitar but I use a Goodrich 120 volume pedal. It really doesn't matter what brand of guitar or (pot) pedal, the pot is the same. I've still got one new Clarostat and probably won't need any for a while, since the last one lasted 4 years. |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 1:48 pm
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Paul Franklin Sr. has had a booth next to mine at the St. Louis Steel Guitar Convention for over 20 years. Plus, I knew Paul back when he was working for David Jackson. I think Paul is one of the greatest steel guitar builders who ever lived. Plus-Paul is one of the most honest people I have ever met. If something is on his mind, Paul will tell you. Paul and I have been known to argue about the price of Tea in China, but friends don't aways agree. Theresa, you are lucky to have a Dad like Paul. Beverly said hello!
I think Paul is the only builder making a stereo POT pedal. I don't know of anyone else making a pedal that has two POTS.
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[This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 12 June 2000 at 02:50 PM.] |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 1:59 pm
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Hey Jack, I agree! It does not matter what guitar you have, or what pedal you have. Until now you had to use a Clarostat Pot. Now, Paul Franklin is offering people a choice.
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Theresa Galbraith
From:
Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 4:06 pm
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Jack,
Good for you, but for those that are needing something new this may help!
Thanks, Theresa |
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ebb
From:
nj
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 4:35 pm
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Franklin's stereo pedal is my favorite. That's why I own three of them. That would make six pots.
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 12 Jun 2000 7:14 pm
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Well Pedalsteel, how to do like the answers to your questions so far?
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 13 Jun 2000 6:51 am
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I just checked the web site for State Electronics and it appears the pot IS mil spec. From their spec sheet it should perform just as well as the Clarostat.
Here's the link to the spec page for the pots http://www.potentiometers.com/rv4.htm
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 13 Jun 2000 10:09 am
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Good for you Jack! I am proud of you! Did you think I was pulling your leg?
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[This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 13 June 2000 at 11:10 AM.] |
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Sutton Reid
From:
Sebastopol, CA, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2000 11:33 am
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Being a newbie and "not really a steel player", but a "fretter who loves steel and hopes to spend some time one of these days..."...
The Magnatone lap steel/amp that was given to me also included a volume pedal that is built like a tank (name starts with "d" (I think it's Italian, what is it... I know you know the name, we're talking fifties here). Anyway, I went to my local electronics store and thought I was doing a good thing when I slipped a new pot in. Well, it worked for a little while. None of the local music stores were any help, BTW.
So even though this sounds like an old discussion, thanks.
And where else in the world does someone post something like "my daddy will guarantee this thing till next year". I mean, that is awesome. |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 13 Jun 2000 11:53 am
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Sutton, Paul Franklin and other manufactures of steels ,and related products, are some of the best people in the world. They will try and help you! Sutton, the pedal you have is probably a "DeArmond". This is not a popular pedal for steel guitar, because it has a rack and pinion gear. Players can feel the gears meashing. Players don't think the rack and pinion gear is as smooth as a string on a pulley.
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[This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 13 June 2000 at 12:57 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Jun 2000 12:54 pm
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Well....we can't seem to lose this pot thing. After doing some reading, here is some more information I've found. When we use pots, they are almost in constant motion. We put a lot of wear on these things. I do know that the old Allen Brady "Type AB" pots were rated with a rotational life of 250,000 cycles. Too bad they don't manufacture "our pot" anymore. The only data I have found on the new Clarostat units says they are rated at 75,000 cycles...a considerable difference! I did further checking at Interstate and Precision, and their pots seem to be rated for 25,000 cycles. This would be unsuitable for our purposes, since the pot moves hundreds of times on a single song. (However, they may have "long life" units that are special order, or not listed.) This bears further investigation.
Now, perhaps most pot manufacturers have lowered the reliability of their units because it is not required for "Mil-Spec" use. Well, it IS required for our uses. I know that there are pots manufactured now with a life of 1,000,000 cycles...that's right...one million. This is what we Should be looking at, and using!
Perhaps everybody's pot is failing prematurely because they just aren't made as well as they used to be!
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm? |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 13 Jun 2000 1:39 pm
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Good point, Donny. I printed out the spec sheet for those pots and "Rotational Life" is 25000 cycles. Also the Mechanical Rotation is 314 degrees. It states "Quality meeting or exceeding MIL-R-94-QPL listed".
I don't have the specs on the Clarostat. Or what the Mil Spec is for a potentiometer of that type.
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