Music industry wants guitarists to stop sharing

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

NY Times
By BOB TEDESCHI
Published: August 21, 2006

The Internet put the music industry and many of its listeners at odds thanks to the popularity of services like Napster and Grokster. Now the industry is squaring off against a surprising new opponent: musicians.

In the last few months, trade groups representing music publishers have used the threat of copyright lawsuits to shut down guitar tablature sites, where users exchange tips on how to play songs like “Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door,” “Highway to Hell” and thousands of others.

The battle shares many similarities with the war between Napster and the music recording industry, but this time it involves free sites like Olga.net, GuitarTabs.com and MyGuitarTabs.com and even discussion boards on the Google Groups service like alt.guitar.tab and rec.music.makers.guitar.tablature, where amateur musicians trade “tabs” — music notation especially for guitar — for songs they have figured out or have copied from music books.

On the other side are music publishers like Sony/ATV, which holds the rights to the songs of John Mayer, and EMI, which publishes Christina Aguilera’s music.

“People can get it for free on the Internet, and it’s hurting the songwriters,” said Lauren Keiser, who is president of the Music Publishers’ Association and chief executive of Carl Fischer, a music publisher in New York.

So far, the Music Publishers’ Association and the National Music Publishers’ Association have shut down several Web sites, or have pressured them to remove all of their tabs, but users have quickly migrated to other sites. According to comScore Media Metrix, an Internet statistics service, Ultimate-Guitar.com had 1.4 million visitors in July, twice the number from a year earlier.

The publishers, who share royalties with composers each time customers buy sheet music or books of guitar tablature, maintain that tablature postings, even inaccurate ones, are protected by copyright laws because the postings represent “derivative works” related to the original compositions, to use the industry jargon.

The publishers told the sites that if they did not remove the tablatures, they could face legal action or their Internet service providers would be pressured to shut down their sites. All of the sites have taken down their tabs voluntarily, but grudgingly.

The tablature sites argue that they are merely conduits for an online discussion about guitar techniques, and that their services help the industry.

“The publishers can’t dispute the fact that the popularity of playing guitar has exploded because of sites like mine,” said Robert Balch, the publisher of Guitar Tab Universe (guitartabs.cc), in Los Angeles. “And any person that buys a guitar book during their lifetime, that money goes to the publishers.”

Mr. Balch, who took down guitar tabs from his site in late July at the behest of the music publishers, added that, “I’d think the music publishers would be happy to have sites that get people interested in becoming one of their customers.”

Cathal Woods, who manages Olga.net, one of the pioneer free tablature sites, said he had run the site for 14 years with the help of a systems administrator, “and we’ve never taken a penny.” Mr. Woods, who teaches philosophy at Virginia Wesleyan College in Norfolk, said Olga.net had earned an undisclosed amount of money by posting ads on Google’s behalf, but he said that money had paid for bandwidth and a legal defense fund.

Anthony DeGidio, a lawyer for Olga.net, said he was still formulating a legal strategy, while also helping decide whether the site could pay licensing fees “in the event that that’s required.” For now, though, the site remains unavailable to users.

Because the music tablature sites are privately held, they do not disclose sales figures, and because industry analysts generally do not closely follow tablature sites, it is unclear how much revenue they generate. But with the Internet advertising market surging, almost any Web site with significant traffic can generate revenue.

Google also dabbles in tablature through its Google Groups discussion board service, in which guitar players trade tabs they have figured out by listening to the songs, or by copying tabs found elsewhere. A Google spokesman, Steve Langdon, said Google would take down music tablature from its Groups service if publishers claimed the materials violated copyright agreements and if Google determined that infringement was likely. Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, Web hosts may review, case by case, a publisher’s claims regarding instances of copyright infringement.

To hear music publishers tell it, though, the tablature sites are getting away with mass theft. Mr. Keiser, of the Music Publishers’ Association, said that before these sites started operating in the early ‘90s, the most popular printed tablatures typically sold 25,000 copies in a year. Now the most popular sell 5,000 copies at most.

But Mike Happoldt, who was a member of the ’90’s band Sublime and whose music is sold in sheet music books, said he sympathized with the tablature sites.

“I think this is greed on the publishers’ parts,” said Mr. Happoldt, who played guitar on Sublime’s hit “What I Got.”

“I guess in a way I might be losing money from these sites, but as a musician I look at it more as a service,” said Mr. Happoldt, who now owns an independent record company, Skunk Records. “And really, those books just don’t sell that much for most people.”

Assuming a tablature site musters the legal resources to challenge the publishers in court, some legal scholars say they believe publishers may have difficulty arguing their complaints successfully. Jonathan Zittrain, the professor of Internet governance and regulation at Oxford University, said “it isn’t at all clear” that the publishers’ claim would succeed because no court doctrine has been written on guitar tablature.

Mr. Zittrain said the tablature sites could well have a free speech defense. But because the Supreme Court, in a 2003 case involving the extension of copyright terms, declined to determine when overenforcement or interpretation of copyright might raise a free speech problem, the success of that argument was questionable. “It’s possible, though, that this is one reason why guitar tabs generated by people would be found to fit fair use,” Mr. Zittrain said, “or would be found not to be a derivative work to begin with.”

Doug Osborn, an executive vice president with Ultimate-Guitar.com said his site violated no laws because its headquarters were in Russia, and the site’s practices complied with Russian laws.

Jacqueline C. Charlesworth, senior vice president and general counsel of the National Music Publishers’ Association, would not comment on the legality of specific sites, including Ultimate-Guitar, but she said she had seen no international licensing agreements that might make free United States distribution of guitar tablature legal.

Online discussion boards have been thick with comments from guitar tablature fans, looking for sites that are still operating and lamenting the fate of sites they frequented. One user of the guitarnoise.com forums, who calls himself “the dali lima,” said he had no doubt that the music publishers would win the battle.

“Hopefully we will get to a place where the sheet music/tab will be available online just like music — $0.99 a song. The ironic thing might be that a service like that — with fully licensed music/tab offered at a low per song rate — might actually benefit guitar players by providing the correct music/tab and not the garbage that we currently sift through.”

A small handful of sheet music sites now sell guitar tablature. Mr. Keiser, of the Music Publishers’ Association, estimated that, including overhead costs, tablature could cost about $800 per song to produce, license and format for downloading.

Musicnotes, an online sheet music business based in Madison, Wis., is considering a deeper push into guitar tablature, said Tim Reiland, the company’s chairman and chief financial officer. The site has a limited array of tablature available now for about $5 a song, and it also offers tablature as part of $10 downloadable guitar lessons.

But Mr. Reiland said that with the music publishers “dealing with the free sites,” and a stronger ad market, his business might be able to lower the cost of its guitar tabs.

“Maybe we could sell some of the riffs to Jimmy Page’s solo in ‘Stairway to Heaven’ for a buck, since that’s really what the kids want to learn anyway,” Mr. Reiland said.

Low prices are only part of the battle, though, Mr. Reiland said. The free tablature sites often host vibrant communities of musicians, who rate each other’s tablature and trade ideas and commentary, and Musicnotes would have to find a way to replicate that environment on its site. Furthermore, these communities often create tablature for songs that have little or no commercial value, he said.

“Less than 25 percent of the music out there ends up in sheet music because sometimes it just doesn’t pay to do it,” Mr. Reiland said. “So the fact that someone comes up with a transcription themselves just because they love that song and want to share it with people, there’s some value to that.”

“I don’t have an answer for that,” Mr. Reiland added. “But I think the industry needs to play around with it, because it could be a nice source of revenue for songwriters, and for the community it could be a really good thing.”

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

It seems to me that the publishers can't legally ask for more than the standard mechanical rate which is what, 8 cents per song? A commercial site might be willing to do that. Users could get 10 songs for a dollar.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

"Mechanical" means records, tapes, CDs.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Mark Lind-Hanson · From: Menlo Park, California, USA

It just seems to me they are goin got be shooting themselves in the foot. How many of us who began as guitarists, began figuring things out from tablature (once we could figure it out?) LOTS. And as someone in another thread noted, where do they draw the line? If you write out a chart (lyrics and chords) for someone on a napkin (as they used, for an example) and the song isn't yours, is it still infringement? Information isn't free any longer, neither is "an education", apparently.
Undoubtedly, attempts to crack down on tab sites will raise a huge hue and cry from the learner's market, which is exactly where they
get the most customers.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

when do they want us to stop sharing, today ?

ok so lets see what can happen..

Guitar tabs and sharing sites goes away, young new players stop getting materials..
then they DO NOT go to Guitar Center

then Guitar Center goes under
then Gibson, Fender, Epiphone, Marshall, Vox, Gretsch ,Yamaha, Ibanzez, Peavey ( yes even them) and all the rest..go under

then someone asks what happened..because they only ones left are Steel Guitars and Steel Guitar Players..and they have there own language that most of them don't even understand!

Then they will re-open all the Guitar TAB websites and everything will return to normal..

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 21 August 2006 at 03:48 PM.]

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I wonder if the buggy-makers sued the first auto companies for "infringement of business." If not, they should have, obviously. Using lawsuits to try to preserve an obsolete business model, or to try to make money off of what somebody else is already doing for free, has got to be a sketchy way to make a profit.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

One of the companies mentioned, is Sony/ATV. I have a friend who was involved with selecting the source music for a big-budget film, last year. Some of the pieces he wanted to use were obscure jazz tunes from the late '20s (it was a period movie). As it turned out, Sony owned the publishing and they wanted $70,000 to use them.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Ernest informed me that "mechanical license" isn't the right term, so I looked into it. The right to distribute printed copies of a song is controlled via a "print license" from the publisher. According to this page, "A songwriter receives royalties from a print license any time sheet music of his song or a folio or collection of his songs is sold. The royalties received from print licensing are usually a few cents per copy printed.".

So how much cash are we talking about, anyway? And who has the power to negotiate print licenses between many music publishers and individual web sites?

Suppose I say, "Fine, I'll pay the royalties." Who do I pay? Is it up to me to negotiate a contract with each publisher? Must I track downloads of each song and divide up the pennies each month?

Instead of shutting down the sites, why isn't the publishing industry working with the site owners to come up with equitable solutions?

------------------

Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Another issue is whether a guitar part, composed by a session musician who was not a party to the song's copyright, is in fact owned by the publisher. That's the situation we have with steel guitar fills and solos.

My view is this: the songwriter has no rights to the studio musicians' unique parts. He may not have been in the room when they were created. They are not a part of his composition.

If Paul Franklin or Buddy Emmons complained to me that their parts were being downloaded from the Forum, I'd remove those files forthwith. Forum policy states as much.

But if Merle Haggard's publishing company comes after me because the steel intro from "Swingin' Doors" is posted on the Forum, I gotta ask them if they have a contract with Ralph Mooney. Ralph owns that part, in my opinion. They'd have to take me to court to prove otherwise.

------------------

Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I had a conversation about solo's with a very famous well known Steeler who's initials are LG.

He made it perfectly clear that musicians do not own anything recorded such as solo's phrases etc. THEY WERE ALREADY PAID to play and thats what they did.

Now as far as the print license goes it is similar to mechanicals, there is a minumium you must apply for and pay for.

Mechanicals is now $50 for 500 pieces which includes some fees, yes you may be able to get it cheaper thru some obscure location, but there is no method to pay 3 cents for 1 copy.

Considering that sites such as Rhapsody now have a blanket monthly fee for listening on line, one would think that it could be done the same way for printed material.

This whole issue is really nuts.

I say write out a Pedal Steel song in TAB form, let them take you to Court and your defense will be..

"Your Honor, tell them to bring there Steel Guitar in here and play the Music they say I Tabbed, I want them to Prove it ! "

------------------
------------------
TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 22 August 2006 at 03:47 AM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Well, LG is probably right, but be aware the recording companies own the actual recording, and will protect it to a ridiculous degree...

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I agree that sampling an actual recording and using it in another commercial recording without permission is clearly copyright infringement. To me, that is entirely reasonable. Copyright owners certainly have a right to royalties from commercial use of their recordings.

But this is quite another thing. I believe that transcriptions of a portion of a performance - e.g., a solo for educational purposes - falls under "fair use" provisions of the copyright laws. I'm not a lawyer, but in education, we have to deal with this frequently. To be fair use, the quoting must be limited and clearly for something like educational or critical review purposes. I think this type of example is as clear as it can be these days - the DMCA does muddy up the waters, and it seems to me that the recording and publishing companies are out phishing to try to get things tightened up while they have a favorable administration and justice dept in place.

The other piece of this, in my view, is that tab is not primarily about the notes, but is an interpretation of how to play something. I think there's a big difference between someone listening to a piece of music and then making tab - an interpretation - of how they think it's played versus publishing someone else's tab on how it's played. So I argue that the former is not copyright infringement, while the latter is. An original tab interpretation is a work unto itself, IMO. It describes how to play a piece, and is not the piece itself, as long as it's an original interpretation.

Of course, the corporate types have the lawyers, guns, and money on their side these days.

Mark Lind-Hanson · From: Menlo Park, California, USA

Another point to make maybe is that the people providing tabs are in many cases, providing a service that was NOT considered by the copyright holders in question for whatever song is in question. If they were on the ball and had provided an access to the tabbed version of their song, there would be no need of someone to go to the trouble to write it out & post it
where "They Can't Earn Any Money Off" It. So that's the free market at work for you.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

To show you how utterly ridiculous the laws for copyrighting have become, there are now some bakeries that will not decorate a children's birthday cake with a likeness of Mickey Mouse, Spongebob Square-Pants, or any other copyrighted cartoon character.

Welcome to the future.

Ron Page · From: Penn Yan, NY USA

If I take a guitar lesson and the teacher teaches me to play something commercial has he infringed on a copyright. These free sites are educational, not for profit. Does that make a difference? I think there are at least subtle differences between patents and copyrights.

------------------
HagFan

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Michael Barone · From: Downingtown, Pennsylvania

Lots of guitar tablature out there is inaccurate to a degree. As Dave M says, it’s an interpretation of an arrangement. IMHO, it’s all about referencing a song title. If the song title was replaced with a numerical code, who is going to go through the trouble attempting to play every song posted (again a subjective interpretation) in order to prove what song title a particular “derivative work” might be?

You would then have to separate chord arrangements from melody arrangements, since chord arrangements are ineligible for copyright.

And then . . .

Let’s say a lawyer hires a guitarist. Will his interpretation of a derivative work hold up in court against a defendant guitarist, to prove a particular arrangement can be positively identified with a song title? Too many songs have melody segments that sound the same.

You see, this is only one example of how our young people will always find ways around an issue that affects their musical socialization.

Mike

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

quote:
I had a conversation about solo's with a very famous well known Steeler who's initials are LG.

He made it perfectly clear that musicians do not own anything recorded such as solo's phrases etc. THEY WERE ALREADY PAID to play and thats what they did.

Yes, that is a "work for hire", and the person doing the hiring would own the copyright. How often is that the song publisher?

My point is that the person/company who owns the copyright has to be the one objecting to its unlicensed use. I doubt that many studio guitar parts are owned by any music publisher. I don't think that the publishers organization would have a leg to stand on in most cases.

------------------

Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Ron Page · From: Penn Yan, NY USA

Ernest, there is apparently some question as to whose property the tab is...

I'd say the turnaround, intros and fills are the picker's property, and my guess is rarely if ever is it copy righted. They aren't in any sheet music I've come across except in steel courses (which we should always pay for).

I guess the real issue is tabs that are fairly verbatim instrumentals of songs.

------------------
HagFan

Byron Walcher · From: Ketchum, Idaho, USA

What about "stock" licks? How about "quoting" another soloist or "borrowing" the melody from another song in your solo. Sometimes this stuff is too ridiculous for words.

------------------
Fessenden 8x8, 74 Black Emmmons 8x8 Wood Necks, Fender Deluxe Eight, Georgeboard, '64 Fender Pro, '68 Bandmaster

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

P Gleespen · From: Toledo, OH USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I thought he meant Lou Gehrig!

Forum Index > Music	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic