Hearing chord changes

John Kelly · Posted 6 Jul 2006 3:34 pm

I'm a beginner. I've bought several of Jeff's courses and can find my way around the guitar pretty well as far as major chords go. My problem is that I never played any instrument before, so training my ear is a BIG obstacle. I can hear a change in the chord, but don't know if it went from a 1 to a 4, or a 1 to 5, etc. I've asked dozens of musicians and they all have pretty much the same responce, something to the effect of " I can't explain it, but you just feel it." Is it something your sub-conscience does with repetition or is it something that can be taught. Obviously, my progress has hit a wall because of this.
Try to remember when you were first learning to play what helped it to come together for you. I need you guys help. Thanks, John

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Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

John,
I'm a long way from qualified to give much advice here, but I think the next step would be for you to start trying to identify and hear 7th chords, they will give you direction as to where that change is going to.

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"Fessy" S/D 12, 8/6 Hilton Pedal, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Bob Hickish · From: Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.

John
Some cord changes can cause problems for
seasoned picker's - I'm not talking pro's - but
just us regular guys .
Try learning a song and learn the cord progression
of it in the number system , - something like
" Tennessee Waltz " .
In the bridge
there is a change that will get just about all new
players . Its a 1 -- 3-- 4 change . after you play it
a million times you will get a feel for that song .

just keep doing one song at a time & after a wile
it will just happen .
Don't let this stop you from learning ! I've been playing
for years and every once in a wile I will spin out
on a progression , I'm sure most of the guys here
will say the same thing .
I might add one more thing ! That is ! try to play
some songs that are in you head , with no training aid
-- just make up you own version -- soon you will
be able to play most anything you want . When
you get to a point you will find your self adding things
to it to make it better .

Have Fun and don't quit !
Hick

Henry Nagle · From: Santa Rosa, California

Listen for the bass lines. If it's older country stuff there's usually some walking bass that will lead you to either a 4 or a 5 chord. Often a guitar will be doing that too. There's tons of that on Johnny Cash's early stuff (the Folsom prison album is great).
Like you said though, you've just got to train your ear. If you know your major scale inside and out it shouldn't take too long.
2 minors, 6 minors, 3 majors, etc. My friend Paul calls them "bonus chords"

.

[This message was edited by Henry Nagle on 06 July 2006 at 06:04 PM.]

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Practice and repetition are the keys to training your ear.
Try doing this.... write out some charts for easy tunes that you might know... some Hank Sr, Merle Haggard, etc... basic country tunes with 3 or maybe 4 chord changes.
Write them out in letters first (any key you wish) and then rewrite them in numbers. You'll find that most tunes will have similar changes, and it'll help you recognize the numbers.
If you don't yet know the theory of the numbers and how it all works, you should brush up on basic music theory.

And...don't get flustered. Once you get a handle on the numbers, you'll understand how easy it is, and why we do it that way.

[This message was edited by Skip Edwards on 06 July 2006 at 06:19 PM.]

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Everything that folks here are telling you is well and good. And more will be coming, I'm sure. But in order for this all to really click in your head and your ears, I strongly suggest that you hook up with a level headed musician/teacher for a session, maybe a few. What this person can tell you and, more importantly, show you---demonstrating with an instrument (anything, not just steel guitar) and also by spinning some familiar discs---will be worth a couple of thousand good but somewhat abstract words.
To play a record and show you that Swinging doors, a jukebox and a barstool----THERE! That's a IV chord. Hear it? My new home has a flashing neon sign---THERE!---hear the V chord? Hear the difference? Let me play that again......

See what I'm saying?

Good luck. With help you will train those ears.

Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

Hey John,
You might want to check out Jack Hatfield's book/CD called "How to Play By Ear". www.hatfieldmusic.com
Don't be put off by Jack's primarily banjo website - he's a banjo picker by trade but the book has nothing to do with any specific instrument. It explains chords, chord progressions, and more importantly what chords usually lead to other chords. This is a big help as he discusses figuring out chord progressions through a process of elimination. With some basic rules to help you out, I think you'll be able to develop your ear fairly quickly. There's also some standard changes in country music that you'll probably be able to recognize with some practice. The CD that goes with the book will help develop your ear as well.

Sonny Priddy · From: Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA, R.I.P.

Get The Sound Of The Song In Your Head And Know What The Cords Sound Like Before You Make Them.If That Makes any sence. SONNY.

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Jody Sanders · From: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.

Hang in there John. It will come with experience. It is hard to explain, but as I said, it will comw with experience. Jody.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I remember ear training very well, in piano.
The teacher familiarized us with the basic intervals--major 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7ths, and then on to the difference in sound from the minor intervals.

Then she'd play two notes and ask the interval. Repetition made these sounds stick in my ear, and it became easy to recognize chords by the intervals in that chord.

Have a keyboard and a helper?
Otherwise, a music teacher and a few lessons would help get the intervals into your ear.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

I'll second Jeff's recommendation "How To Play By Ear."

A very worthwhile learning resource. Very well written, presented, and logically easy to follow.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

John,
One way to tell if the chord is a 4 chord or a 5 chord is to sing the root of the 1 chord out loud while the song is playing. If the note you are singing stays the same on the next chord its a 4 chord. If the note you are singing wants to move down a half step to sound good with the next chord its a 5 chord.

There are tons of tricks like that. A trained musician/teacher can show you.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

Check out the little micro chord progressions that are found in a song and you will see patterns that are repeated by alot of composers. Country has it's own chord progressions that need to be internalized. Count the number of measures in a progression i.e. verses or choruses, see which progressions are used alot and where certain chords like the 5 etc. are found in the same measures of famous songs. This combined with your relative pitch of listening to the recording will get you used to what’s going on until it's old hat for ya. Just take apart the songs you want to gig with and ask why. Look for things that are repeated alot for starters. Listening to the bass always helps me to figure out the chord progression of a song. Getting the right voicing comes later for most people, but the right chord family still works even if it isn’t exactly what so and so played. If you can’t remember to change on the down beat with everybody else when a new chord appears, count it out in your head at home until you can feel and hear the change. Imitation and repetition will over come your obstacles. Also, I would suggest buying Hal Leonard’s country fake book so you can see the chord progressions to a lot of famous songs and analyze them. Get some contemporary country books too and go through them. Your best musicians had to over come these same problems by working at it. Good luck…

Ron Page · From: Penn Yan, NY USA

John,

You might have come across Jeff's audio course for chord progression training called, "Play What You Hear, Hear What You Play". (I may have reversed the two phrases in that title...can never remember).

It covers many common chord progressions and in the book Jeff describes, for each progression, what to expect next when hearing a certain chord. He also points out several instances where the steel player should play a substitution.

I'm about where you are on this. This course has a lot of what I think you need, but you'll have to work harder at it then I have.

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HagFan

Marc Friedland · From: Fort Collins, CO

John,

It would of course be easier to hear the changes if a chord was made up of only one tone.
But a chord is made up of 3 or more tones, and these tones can get totally mixed around in their order, and perhaps difficult for a beginner to decipher which note of the chord is what people refer to as the "one."
It is my guess, that's where a good deal of confusion can occur.
Unfortunately, It's difficult to recommend a precise method, without actually being there with you in person, to determine exactly what learning method might be best for you. I will think about it, and if I get any worthwhile inspirations, I will surely send you an email.

Marc

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

What Jon Light said..... that's the best advice I've seen here.

Mark Herrick · From: Bakersfield, CA

You might want to check out some software like this:
http://www.janasoftware.com/pet.htm

I found it at Best Buy and I think it was less than the $49.95 that it lists for on the website...

basilh · From: United Kingdom

To differentiate between the change to a 4 or a 5 chord, do a quick check mentally.
If a run UP fits, then it's a 4 chord, if a run DOWN works, then it's a 5.
The runs that you imagine are the STANDARD bass patterns i.e. 1,2,3,4 or 1,7,6,5.
you can actually pre-empt the change an start imagining the run slightly prior to the change anticipated.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I too think that Jon above is most accurate in the analogy and how to get there..

take a song that you already know..it's in your head, you can sing it, hum it, whatever..you don't have to think about, it's automatic...

as you sing it, hum it, whatever, you should be able to recognize the chord changes..

try this

Row row row your boat ( all 1 )
gently down the stream (still all 1)
merilly merilly merilly merilly (still all 1)

Life ( now 5) is but a

dream ( 1 again )

I think what most of us are doing is in anticipation...Especially with the simplistic Country tunes , mostly all writtn around a 1,4,5..with a common formula, we are anticipating the 1 to 4, or 1 to 5 change at the end of a measure or verse or particular phrasing. Songs for the most part are formula's.

Keep in mind that the chord family stays intact..so you are not chasing chords all over the fretboard..you are chasing maybe two chords, the 4 or the 5..

But at the end of the day you must be able to HEAR the changes and automatically relate them to a voicing, being a 4 , 5, relative minor etc...

Take a song you know very well..

write out the lyrics..line by line

assign chords over the words in the appropriate places

then assign numerical value to the chords you wrote over the lyrics..

magically you will see the formula appear...

listen to the song while reviewing the lyrics with chords and numbers...as the chords change you will now SEE/HEAR the numerical assignment and relationship in action.

some don't have to work at all to get this down, some have to work a little to get it down, some have to work real hard to get it down.

and unfortunatley, some may never get it down...there expertise probably lives in another arena.

Ear training is mandatory and does not require an Instrument. It requires patience.

good luck

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 08 July 2006 at 11:57 AM.]