Record Lady's Site RIP

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

I guess I thought it would last forever.I got to hear a lot of tunes I had only heard about.Only down loaded a few.

. Anyway had not been there in months. i went there tonite to get an old tune I needed to hear. When I got there. I learned the site would be closed in 10 mins. I down loaded the tune I needed + a couple more.I'm gone ah miss her...........

Dayna Wills · From: Sacramento, CA (deceased)

The thing that bothered me about the record lady is that she was giving everyone's work away. She could put people like Merle Haggard outta business. He no longer has a major record company and is self produced. She puts his CD online and soon no one will "BUY" his music and he will have no choice but to quit producing it. When a small fee is charged, writers and performers can actually make a buck without having to have a major recording contract.

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Alvin Blaine · From: Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

I didn't know she offered new music by anyone.Maybe I missed something???

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I never saw any "new music" on her site. Most of the stuff she had was old, mostly out-of-print songs that you just can't find anywhere else. If she was forced offline by the recording companies (which I suspect was the case), it's just one more instance of the public being deprived of a resource by some pinheads who think they're losing money. Where else can you hear songs by Bradley Kincaid, Texas Ruby, Vernon Dalhart, and so many others?

No, it's monetary greed, plain and simple. Most of the writers and singers she gave us glimpses of are long gone, anyway. Now, of course, the industry hopes you'll just buy more current stuff..."We'll take away all the free stuff, and make it so they'll have to buy everything from us!" Maybe, but maybe the public will just turn to some other form of entertainment. One thing is for certain, the artists and writers of the past will only be more quickly forgotten, and their contributions to American music (for which they wouldn't receive royalties, anyway) will sooner fade away.

Which do you think the artists of the past would want more...to be remembered? Or, to have their families or heirs paid some paltry sum for that which they devoted their lives to, while some greedy millionaire makes a much more significant amount? Think about it, for with luck...you'll be there someday, too.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

My thoughts on this site were posted here: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum10/HTML/005244.html

Her site now has a notice that says:

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Donny said what I wrote last night and held back, but more diplomatically. For all practical purposes, this is about killing a style of music, IMO. Not much chance anybody is going to reissue the lesser-known traditional country material - and once out of sight, it's out of mind, never to rear its ugly head again. Except in old vinyl, which many of us continue to scarf up at flea markets and vintage record shops.

For those of you who disagree, it's also unnecessary to bore us with the legalese about why this is illegal. The DMCA make posting practically anything illegal (although I thought the new public-domain rules were supposed to be restricted to post-1978 production, which is probably why Record Lady chose to not post 80s and later material), but that doesn't make this right. The concept of 'public domain' and 'fair use' are essentially dead, and that is not a good thing. Holding copyrights essentially into perpetuity primarily benefits large corporations, IMO. No big surprise there, eh?

Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Aug 2005 12:54 pm

Nobody knows why it came down correct? The timing is funny, that it came down exactly at the end of the month, at a particular time. If a record company wanted to shut it down, it would just come down. The timing on this seems more like something that expired at a pre-determined time. Like an ISP bill not paid.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

You're right, Bill - it is premature to speculate on what caused this. She has posted for some time that she neede more support to keep this going. Hopefully, that's what's going on here, since it's fixable, in principle.

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

I'm not sure I understand what difference it would really make if the stuff on her site was considered "old" or "new."

What really matters, I would think, is whether she has permission from the copyright owners to make the stuff available to download.

And, come to think of it, maybe the reason why some of that old stuff isn't available on CD is because of websites that make it available for free.

Just my 2 cents.

[edited to correct typo]

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 01 August 2005 at 06:36 PM.]

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Well like I said before,

They'll pry my copy of "Take A Tater and Wait" from my cold dead fingers....

EJL

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

I don't remember you saying that before...

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

I agree with Donnie. Thanks to her site I got to hear people I had never even heard of play.Many where very good.Just folks that kinda made it on a regional level I guess.
Anyway, If I were dead, or my carrer long since over. I'd much rather my music be there for people to hear free of charge than for it to be dead and buried forever. But that's just me.

Another way to look at it. Her site might actually help sell records. First you hear people you had not thought about in years. 2nd, the sound quality was so bad on the site. That if you liked the artist you would try to purchase the real deal.Made me wanna buy the Hank Thompson box set.....

[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 01 August 2005 at 07:45 PM.]

Cody Campbell · From: Nashville, Tennessee

BB is right.

Listening to those RealAudio sound files is really a far cry from being able to put your ear up to the speaker of a machine that's actually spinning the record.

Rose the recordlady says that her site was to educate, entertain, and bring back a memory. (It definitely educated me during the time that I knew about it).

I found great songs I hadn't heard, (though I mostly searched for songs and downloaded them right away, as not to be a bandwidth-theif, as Rose called it). I also requested a few great songs I already had on record but wanted on the PC.

Rose also said that she does not put entire albums on her site, so it cannot at all be a substitute for 'buying the record'.

I'm grateful for what Rose did to keep all that old music alive to be remembered, and I'm relieved (now more than ever) that I downloaded the 20 or so songs that I did onto my computer.

I hope she returns someday, for the benefit of all c&w music listeners.

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

I'd have to say that I can definitely see your points about the advantages of TRL site. But, the thing is, if that type of site is allowed, then the question becomes when is the unauthorized use of someone else's property wrong and when is it OK?

Is it OK for someone to trespass on your land w/o permission as long as it's educational and entertaining? Or can I use your car without asking you as long as I'm taking an educational or entertaining trip?

I know that personal property and real property are different from intangible property, but on the other hand, property is property.

I'm not saying I'm against sites like TRL site -- just bringing up some underlying issues that are relevant. (playing devil's advocate)

Cody Campbell · From: Nashville, Tennessee

Good point, Tom.

I am uneducated in legal matters. I coundn't say whether or not that the website violates artist's right to intellectual/'intangible' property.

I'm curious and plan to look into it, (even though none of us know yet whether the site was shut down by legal authority, or by a lack finances to keep it running, or elsewise).

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

knowing just how delicate Rights issues are
violation of them has been a mainstay since the stone age

RIP Record Lady
Thanx for the Education
i sincerely hope you resurect or get reintarnated

c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

Email her adress shown on the site still. She will answer and tell you in detail whwt happened. I have a copy but no smart on how to post its recldy@ mail.com. cc

Walter Stettner · From: Vienna, Austria

I was always wondering how long this site would last, given the enormous number of songs she had avalable, also considering the big battle between the music industry and the download platforms on the net.

From my point of view, the poor quality of the soundfiles never attracted the typical collector, I think the main purpose for many of us was to search for songs, write out lyrics and bring back memories or find new "old" material we have not heard so far. I think this even might have caused people to look for the songs and buy the material in CD quality (if available), but on the other hand, Tom is right, property is property and who wants to draw the line?

Would be interesting to find out the real reason!

Kind Regards, Walter

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www.lloydgreentribute.com

www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

Leigh Howell · From: Edinburgh, Scotland * R.I.P.

The Record Lady's site was a wonderful way to find, and play old songs that haven't been on the market for years. The songs were all released from the 20's to 1980. I'm sure Merle Haggard didn't have to worry about her site hurting his record sales. I for one, am sorry the site is gone. Brought back lots of old memories.
Leigh

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Well I've always believed that you find out nothing from the horse's back end, so I wrote to Rose, the Record Lady and the following cut and paste is her answer:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Shannon"
To: recldy@mail.com
Subject: site closure
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:24:35 -0500

why was the site shut down.
fred
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for writing, Fred...a copy of the letter I'm sending out to all
who ask "why" is copied below:
------------------------
The "disclaimer" on my site has always read, in part, "if you hold legal
right to a song and wish it removed, it will be once proof of your ownership is
verified." Somebody finally took me up on that:

On Friday, July 29th I received this email:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
To Whom It May Concern,

I own, co-own, control or have a vested financial interest in all music
from the following labels and their subsidiaries:
RCA, Mercury, United Artists, MGM, Decca, Dot, and Kapp
I demand that all music files on your web site, both streaming audio
links and download links, for these labels be removed immediately.
I demand that a full accounting for licensing fees paid, songwriting
royalties paid and publishing royalties paid, from site inception to
date, for all songs streamed and downloaded be provided to me immediately.
Failure to comply by 9:00 AM, Monday, August 1, 2005, will result in
civil and criminal actions.
Sincerely,
(and I won't give his name and his affiliations, except for the fact that
he apparently owns a small record label in Florida)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

My first thought was WHO IS this person and does he indeed have the RIGHT
to make those demands of me?...(hell, any "kook" could have sent that
e-mail...) I also knew there was no way in hell I could go through all
the songs on my sight and "eliminate" those that were on the labels he
specified before his "deadline".

As far as his second demand went, I'd always believed that I was exempted
from having to pay licensing fees and royalty fees because of the "fair
use" part of the copyright law...I wasn't "selling" any of the music and there
was no way in hell that my tiny ra files of old out of print music could
be seen in any way, shape or form as interfering with "possible sales" by
the record companies....

I was all set to write back to this guy and demand NOTARIZED PROOF that
he had the right to make the demands on me that he had, but decided I'd
better go online first and check out a few things so I'd have something to back
me up, BEFORE I wrote a letter to him.....

I re-read the "copyright laws" and eventually ended up on this page of
the RIAA's website:
http://www.riaa.com/issues/music/downup_faq.asp

(For those of you who don't know, the RIAA is the organization that has
been suing users of peer to peer file sharing programs for trading near CD
quality mp3's of the current music the record companies are trying to
sell.)

I was shocked when I read this and realized that I didn't have a leg to
stand on...that because I hadn't paid thousands of dollars in licensing
fees and the such, I could be considered by them to be some kind of
"criminal"...hell, according to this, anyone of us who even sends a song
file via e-mail to a friend can be considered guilty of "copyright
infringement"!!!

Bottom line is that it makes no difference whether or not this jerk had
the right to make his demands...all he'd have to do (and probably already
has) is report my site to the RIAA and then the law suit would come from them
and not him.

I have no money to hire a lawyer and I don't need or want to have to
defend myself on criminal charges, when all my intention was was to share some
memories (in song) with friends out there who had a want and need to hear
them.

Oh well, the powers that be don't want us to waste our time listening to
the old music...they want us to hear only what they want us to hear...the new
crap they are tiring to sell. They control radio pretty much now, so now
they're trying to control the internet....

As much as I hated to give in to this, I felt I had no other choice but
to close down the site.

I'm grateful to each and every one of you who have helped keep the site
online for as long as it has been and I consider each and every one of
you a friend of mine....we've shared a lot together and they can't take that
away from us!

Rose

------------------------------------

Guess that pretty well answers the questions posed.
Phred

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"From Truth, Justice is Born"--Quanah Parker-1904

Walter Stettner · From: Vienna, Austria

As usual, here comes Phred to provide us with the information...Thanks for sharing!

The answer is more or less what I expected it to be, some peanut counter somewhere who fears he might lose a few bucks, not knowing that this website was NOT interfering with record sales for several reasons:

1) No current material was available, every file was pre-1980.

2) The quality of the soundfiles was really low, nothing that you could burn on a CD and sell yourself. They were merely thought for song searching, writing out lyrics or simply finding old songs again and dicovering new "old" material (ironically that might have led listeners to buy CDs if the material was available in good quality).

From the law perpective "Mr. Financial Interest" is right, yeah, but can you really compare this site with the professional download and trade platforms that make 100.000's of songs available for free download???

I hope "Mr. Financial Interest" is satisfied now, he won a big battle, something to be proud of!

Kind Regards, Walter

------------------
www.lloydgreentribute.com

www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Thanx uncle Phred
& a great big THANK YOU to Rose

to run a site like RC one has to set up shop in Kirghizstan, Tadjikistan, Serbia, Vanuatu, Borneo, or Sudan
anywhere but a civilized a nation
(probably impossible on the reservation too)

Leigh Howell · From: Edinburgh, Scotland * R.I.P.

Who ever that guy is I hope he's real proud of himself!!!!He must have a pretty uneventful life, to have to go thru the time and trouble to run a nice Lady's memorable site off of the internet!! Thanks Rose for all those pleasant memories!!

Leigh

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