How hard do you try...?

Chuck Cusimano · From: Weatherford, Texas, USA

How hard do you try to FIT the song you're playing (In the studio, or with a band)? I listen sometimes to players, that don't seem to want to COMPLIMENT the song, and just try to "show off" every lick they know, without regard to the BIG picture. I'm not putting anyone down for their style, or wanting to start a fight, just asking a question. Be truthful.
Edited to mention TONE. Also, do you try to approach each song with a complimentary tone to fit the song?

[This message was edited by Chuck Cusimano on 04 March 2006 at 09:52 AM.]

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

Chuck,,
I don't have the "talent" to show off. I just try to play the song to the best of my ability with as much tone as I can. Pleasing to my ears, and to the customers enjoyment is what I'm looking for.

Larry

------------------
Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Well Chuck. If the sound and/or band arrangement calls for a sharp biting tone, screaming, maybe, or a soft sotto voice tone, then I'd say that if you want to play with them, or fit in, you'd better give it a try.

I was listening to a couple break filler tunes last night. One was "Fire on the Mountain". The steel sounded like pure $h!*. Same with Mooney's Waylon tunes that were on the filler CD. In the latter case, Waylon specified, as far as I remember that he wanted a raw, high cutting tone, and I suppose the intonation being so far off suited him too. He was the boss. I know Mr Mooney was/is capable of the sweetest and most tasty playing so I'm sure it chapped his ass too.

Sometimes when I've played Fire on the Mountain, I tried to sound like "the record" but I just couldn't take it. Simililarly with Waylon Tunes.

I think since I'm always working in paid bar bands, I try to achieve a balance of what they want, and what I'm willing/able to play.

I could stay home and bitch I guess, but then my friends would shoot me as per my specific instructions.

EJL

Chuck Cusimano · From: Weatherford, Texas, USA

Well Eric, If the Bands arrangement calls for a certain tone, or attack, and you play it that way, then by all means you are "Trying to FIT the song." I'm talking about jumping off the edge and forsaking the sound called for (acording to the wants of the band, or paramiters of the song) Obviously you wouldn't want to play a fill with a lot of distortion behind Merle Haggard singing "Silver Wings" unless he asked you to.

If you re-read my thread, you'll see where I stated I wasn't bitching, (and I don't stay home) I am asking this question to see where other players heads are while music is being played, and they're a part of the sound coming off the stage, or going on the record. It goes without saying that one should play what the one who pays wants.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

well as far as tone goes, I pretty much stay within the same box for most of the gig.
I do use one of my settings which also includes a slight CHORUS for a few tunes now and then and I also use the Boss Blues Driver ( the Blue one ) for the Overdrive tone...but mostly I use the single slap delay with the general tone settings done on the amps and try my best not to fool with them and mess 'em up...

Now as far as playing the "SONG"...that is the plan...I think every musician should play the SONG first. When all else fails play the melody line...Ya can't go wrong doin' that...

when I stray too far I get ugly looks from my Tele playin' buddy..but I get to give him a few ugly looks now and then too !

------------------
------------------
TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 04 March 2006 at 02:41 PM.]

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 04 March 2006 at 02:42 PM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I cured myself of hot-licks syndrome years ago. If nothing I can think of would be appropriate to the tune, I lay out. If one well-placed note fits the song, that's all I play. Every once in a while it's appropriate to pull out all the stops, but in reality less IS more most of the time.

Guys with great chops are fun to listen to - to a point. But if they don't know where to put them, or if they overplay, I get bored quickly. I don't have enough experience listening to steel players to know who the guilty parties are (grin) but on guitar the late Danny Gatton seemed to be over-the-top all the time, and Johnny Hiland, a nice kid with tremendous talent, is doing the same thing.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Oh no Chuck. the "stay home" wasn't aimed at you at all. I suppose a friend of mine fits that bill...

I passed on a band called "24 Bitc*es on Mescaline" cause I couldn't see doing what they wanted in changing songs like the Silver Wings to a Hell Cows Head Banger Version.

OTOH, people like Merle have many times "straight eighted" songs like Today I started Loving you", and "Lost Highway". It's all in how you can accept it. MArty Robbins with "Don't Worry about Me" used a pretty convincing Fuzz Tone and seemed to sell it alright. Same with Buck's "Who's gonna mow your grass".

My limits are pretty far out there, but there are some, I guess.

Jim S.

At the risk of thread hijackery I agree with you 100 percent.

Danny used to play even "the" top players, steel, violin, piano into the ground, and not only played himself into a hole Industrywise, and ground wise, but my favorite stuff of his plays my ears into the ground too. I think he was a good example of the "Shooting Star™". Roy too..

I'm really impressed with young Mr Highland, and I hope he doesn't succumb to the same fate.

Brad Paisley OTOH is IMHO a consumate young master at what he does. As a returning Tele Player, nearly ALL his intros are not intimidating for intermediate players. ( read this twice for the "nearly" if need be..)

(The favorites that I've been working in are "Long Sermon" "Make a Mistake", Me Neither, Easy Money, I'll take you back, THat's love, etc. Neary all need a music slowing program and for me about two hours a day for a week or so on each.)

Then he lays down a credible, tasty rhythm foundation, and then in the second part of the song launches into "master-land" only to return and take the song out with inevitable grace. He's got a great bag of tricks, obvious respect for his predecessors, playing wise, a mind like a steel trap, a great sense of humor, and a sense of when not to play over the heads of every single listener, players or not.

Back to the programme...

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 04 March 2006 at 04:02 PM.]

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I try very hard to fit the song as far as style goes. But, trying to vary tone for different songs while onstage (not talking session playing here) is not always possible. Unless you have a rack system sitting next to you while you play, it would be very difficult. Plus, I don't think any band leader would want or tolerate you having to get up, walk to your amp, change settings, walk back to your guitar, play the song, go back to your amp and reset your tone settings, etc... You get the picture. The only thing I do is shift my hand farther from the pickup to mellow out the tone when needed.

Rich Weiss · From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA

Greg Leisz, who does a whole lot of session work, had described the way he plays like this, that he 'interacts' with the music - and tries to connect with it emotionally.

Mark Edwards · From: Weatherford,Texas, USA

Chuck - Gary Carpenter, Corky Owens, Steve Lamb, and Earl Clark, are my mentors and instructors. Each has made the suggestion to listen how the song was originally done, get as close as possbile to the tune, and like great players do ,throw in your own originality. I can walk into a room without knowing who is in the band and pick out which one is playing steel. I even know when your playing Chuck because of your style of playing (which by the way is bar-none to any other lead guitar player) in this area, it's what makes great musicians, great musicians. I think you can agree, the other night at Pearl's when Dick Price was playing, we stood there in awe of his style, I was blown away, and will never forget that sound. When I listen to great steel players, I usually try to pick up something I can use, go home and try it, if it works great, if not, it's not my style. I may never play like Carp, or Corky, but you can sure hear their influence in my playing. Thank you Chuck.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

If your playing doesn't fit the song, then you shouldn't be playing!

Doug Earnest · From: Branson, MO USA

As a less than common grade steel player and not much better guitarist, I feel that the very best thing I can do is tailor my playing to fit the mood of the song to the best of my ability. It's worked very well for me the last 25 years as far as being welcome to play with a bunch of different people.
I think this goes along with Bobbe's recent discussions on are you a musician or not. You don't have to necessarily be the best technical player to still fit in as a musician. Offer your best and act like you know something.
By the way Eric, I can play Fire On the Mountain just exactly like the record!! That isn't a good thing.

Kenny Burford · From: Independence, Missouri USA

I believe when a musician is contacted to work a session their style and ability have already been determined to be acceptable by the party responsible for selecting the band for the session. Ultimately that is the party that will be held accountable for the quality of the final product and if they requested your musical services it is because of something they know you instinctively do when playing. For some players it is their ability to follow the melody, for some one else it maybe their ability to create distinctive or signature licks, and for others it maybe electronic wizardry and there are players who can make these things work in the studio and a greater number who cannot. I am also of the opinion that players who record well are individuals who pay a great amount of attention to the detail of their performance and know not to extend past their musical boundaries while working on the studio clock. As studio Songbird Studio owner/engineer Jimmy Ellis often tells bands using his studio, “Guys I don’t care if you come here to practice, but it is cheaper to practice at home rather than pay me while you practice here in the studio.”

I think musicians who work recording sessions on a steady basis are a real special group of players, when you consider they give up a tremendous amount of their creative ideas in an attempt to make a lot of mediocre song sound plausible. I made the decision ten plus years ago not to play on other peoples recording sessions at random. I worked on a session that I considered to be an absolute embarrassment that wound up getting a lot of regional airplay. There were two lead guitar players on the session that received album credits, but the songs that each of us played on were not identified, that further darkened my affiliation with the project and made me come to my position on the matter. Further, because I hardly ever work in the studio I am seldom satisfied with my own musical performance when working on my own recording projects, so I sure don’t consider my musical playing ability at an acceptable level to work on a recording project for some one else. I tend to overplay, make too many mechanical errors, have poor tone quality, and find out when I get to the studio that my equipment is not in the proper condition to make a recording; thereby, wasting someone else’s time and money. Even though I am not a proponent of using the same players for every recording, I do believe that there are qualified players in every community that can assist a person in making great recordings, that are much more effective than selecting random players who have little or no studio training. I have invested in projects both ways, but I believe the most productive is using seasoned professional in the studio.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I play in a cover band. We all cover our parts. That way the audience gets what they are familiar with and we have steady work. We fired a guitarist once for being too lazy to cover the recorded arrangemments. Then again we do things like "Dead Flowers" by the The Stones that is fairly original in the arrangement. We also do some very innovative original material. All our songs are arranged one way or another for maximum inpact on the audience. Half the time my hands are completely off the steel. I look at the steel as a complimentery lead instrument. I play fiddle the same way.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 05 March 2006 at 06:31 PM.]

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 05 March 2006 at 06:32 PM.]

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 05 March 2006 at 06:58 PM.]

Mark Fasbender · Posted 15 Mar 2006 2:55 am

I take all the liberties with the arrangement and the harmony I want too.
Sometimes none, sometimes alot. Never had any complaints. Perhaps they just dont notice. Go figure.

------------------
Got Twang ?

Mark

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I try very hard to make anything I play fit a good song - the song should come first. I don't like gratuitous and tasteless displays of flash. But what is "tasteful" is purely a matter of personal taste and the audience being pursued. There's often a big difference between what fits on a mainstream commercial release and music aimed at an audience of musical cognoscenti. In addition, a poorly written or boring song may be helped considerably by something that doesn't fit within its limited confines, but raises it to a different level. The issue is fitting in with what is appropriate. Sometimes that's one note (Cinnamon Girl), sometimes that's long virtuosic passages (Giant Steps). I prefer to hear a player who can do both.

So I couldn't disagree more with the comments on Danny Gatton and Roy Buchanan. For example, take Danny's studio playing as a sideman with rockabilly great Robert Gordon. These sides are a textbook on how to play commercial rock and rockabilly. He could create great hooks and licks in his sleep, and play them to fit perfectly in a commercial context. But why would anybody want him to do that on his solo releases or play live like that? Danny was the show. The very point was to show the connection between a wide variety of styles of American music by genre hopping. If he's playing over the heads of mainstream commercial audiences - well, what else is new? Almost all mainstream jazz is over the heads of most commercial listening audiences. Let's face it, neither Tal Farlow, nor even John Coltrane, are ever going to be household names in middle America. That doesn't bother me either. As usual, this is just my opinion, YMMV, and that's cool.

On the subject of tone, that is even more purely subjective, to me. Is the electric sitar on Gary Stewart's "Big Bertha the Truck Driving Queen" out of place? I don't think so, but I imagine many hardcore country fans in the mid-70s gulped when they heard that, and I certainly didn't see a clamor for more electric sitar on country records.

This is mostly about where things fit within peoples' expectations. Innovators challenge those expectations, which may not be what sells the most records, but is usually what moves the music to new places - some of those places prove interesting, some not. But without experimenters, it'd be a pretty boring landscape.

Jennings Ward · From: Edgewater, Florida, R.I.P.

I ALWAYS TRIED TO REMEMBER THAT THE " SONG "
OR "MUSIC " WAS THE STAR, I WAS ONLY A SMALL PART OF THE PREFORMANCE, AND MY ONLY JOB WAS
TO MAKE THE MUSIC PLEASING AND ACCEPTABLE OT AS MANY AS I POSSABLY COULD...I THINK THAT IS THE OBJECTIVITY OF ANY MUSICIAN THAT IS WORTH HIS SALT, AND TO ACHIEVE LONGJEVITY.... IN ALL CASES IT MUST BE PLEASING TO THE EAR, BODY AND SOUL..
NOISE SIMPLY WONT CUT IT FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME.. MY 1.5 CENTS.......JENNINGDS U PK;;;;

------------------
EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Mark Fasbender · Posted 15 Mar 2006 4:31 pm

Dave........ I agree about Gatton. If you base your expectations on his work as a sideman, you will perhaps get a surprise out of his solo work. I think he had alot of depth. Tal Farlow...... Yee Haw.
There are lots of opportunities to express your self in a cover tune. Even in a song with some serious "guitar slingin" you can do your own thing if its got the right vibe. No one in the audience has an entire Paisley solo memorized. Just hit some high points and have some fun.
Im the one playin the song and at that point it is MY solo anyway. Gotta believe in yourself or no one else will. After a certain amount of time doin this for a living one should know what fits and what doesn't.

------------------
Got Twang ?

Mark

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

Having been married to the girl singer in the band for 20 yrs., I try my damnedness to compliment her singing to the utmost. After all, it's my job and it makes the ride home after the gig very cordial. Making sure I don't overplay or play notes that might interfere with her singing notes is paramount. When it comes to doing solo's, I try to stick to the melody of the tune, especially on shuffles and ballads. Torch songs and tear jerkers are in that catagory. But, when it comes to fast tunes, I usually try to do scales. Backwards, forwards, inside out, the notes are all there and I use my own discretion as to how I'm going to play them. But, there's also another avenue to take. If I'm playing a tune that has one of my favorite steel players in it, I try to copy his touch in regards to backups and solo'ing. My wife notices this right away. She also notices it, when I blow it! I usually get the "I had to learn the words, why can't you learn the tune" look... Most of all, I try to have fun with it and do my best at creating cohesive music. We all can't be Buddy Emmons or John Hughey or Lloyd Green or Hal Rugg or Russ Hicks or Herby Wallace, et al....

Chuck Cusimano · From: Weatherford, Texas, USA

Thanks for all the replys. I certainly wasn't going for the throat in this thread, just asking a question, and wondering if anyone else felt like I do about this subject. I believe the musicians should do whatever the singer needs to be comfortable.
I used to "get in the way" with my playing, not realizing, how I was interfering with the vocalist. Then, I heard someone talking about a local guitar player, and I went to hear him the first chance I had. I listened, and with every clean note, well placed, behind the singer, I said to myself, "I can do that". Then, the little guy on my shoulder asked me, "Then why don't you?". It changed me overnight.

The other side of this subject, I must tell you, I heard the same guy playing in a jam session a month later, and I was blown away with his knowledge, and talent on the guitar. I read an interesting article about Junior Barnard, that stated, when Bob Wills first heard him, he hired him because he was a wild man. He ran around with some of the Jazz greats at the time, and had his own style, and approach to the music.

I have known some guys like me that just "play it safe" most of the time, and since I'm not a MONSTER guitar player, it keeps me (and them) working. Sort of like when I grew up Cowboyin' for a living, It was the wild ones (cowboys)that got their walkin' papers. I just tried to stay with the herd, and not have fun at the Ranch's expence. Again thanks for responding honestly.