Another UPS Horror Story: Please Help

Harry Sheppard · From: Kalispell, MT USA

Hi all,

Here is another UPS horror story which does not look good for me. Maybe someone has an idea?

I purchased a Crafters of Tennessee Tut Taylor Dobro on 10/22 of this year from an authorized dealer on E-bay. Some of you may know him. This guitar was supposed to be a "Demo" model which was in new condition. This was not advertised as a second. Total cost including shipping was $1300 using the Buy-it-Now option and Pay-Pal. The transaction and communication went perfect and the Dobro arrived in good condition a week later. While restringing the guitar, I noticed the neck was not aligned to the center of the guitar correctly. To "fix" the problem, the manufacturer moved the tailpiece a little off center to make the strings align to the neck. It did not look that bad but this was not supposed to be a second, it was a demo in "as new" condition. I called the vendor and explained what I found and he agreed to fully refund all of my money including shipping if I return the guitar. I packed the guitar back in the original shipping box using the same packing materials it came with (newspaper and bubblewrap) and shipped it back through The UPS Store insured for $1500. When the guitar arrived, I was told by the vendor that the box had been dropped by UPS and damaged the case and knocked one of the screens out which scratched the top of the guitar. He said since I was the shipper, I needed to file a damage claim with the UPS Store since that is where it shipped from. They would then file it with UPS and have the guitar picked up. Several weeks later, I received a call from the UPS Store stating that the dobro was back in their store and they saw that the box had a large hole in it. They opened it to inspect the damage and noticed there was a large crack on the treble side shoulder and the top had seperated from the sides on that side as well due to the impact. There was also a 12" split in the new hardshell case where it had been dropped. Accompanying the instrument was a letter from UPS denying the claim due to improper packing. This is where it gets interesting. While I was at the UPS store, in walks a UPS rep. We explained everything to him and he said we needed to reopen the claim stating that UPS was the last one to pack the guitar (damage inspection) and should therefore be responsible for getting it back to me safely. I just received another call from the UPS Store today wanting me to pick up the Dobro since the claim was denied again due to improper packing. They also pulled up the original damage claim and it indicates that the instrument was cracked at the time of the original inspection. I called the vendor again and he assures me that the only damage to the guitar when he received it were the scratches on the top. The original damage inspection did not mention the scratches, only a crack. Also they said there was no damage to the box. The box now has a hole in the top big enough to put my entire fist through. No mention was made of this either. The vendor has made it very clear that he will not refund my money. The UPS Store will not claim responsibility since they did not originally pack the guitar. UPS says that it was improperly packed even though I used the original packing materials from the vendor. The way it stands now, I have $1300 worth of fire wood unless I spen more money to get the damage fixed so I could sell it and loose even more money. Has anybody ever had to deal with anything like this before? Whose responsibility is this. I cannot believe it would be mine but the vendor has my money and UPS just has to say it was not properly packed. Thanks for any ideas or advise.

Harry

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

That IS a horror story. That just totally SUCKS. I'm so sorry. I can only lend moral support, as I've never had to file a claim with UPS, although their actions don't surprise me. We're all really at their mercy unless -- I would imagine -- they're the ones who do the packing (at their inflated charge). This could be a lesson, however, in shipping such an expensive guitar, that we should always pay the extra "insurance" to have them pack it for us. Even then, there's no guarantee. They can actually say whatever they want to say.

I wish you the best -- good luck.

Al

Alvin Sydnor · From: Boothwyn, Pennsylvania, USA

Does anyone know the difference between
Fed-X and UPS as far as cooporation in handling such damage claims??
Keep on Pikin
Alvin

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

UPS has stringent packing regulations. You have to get a copy of them and read them. This is their "out" for many claims. According to the weight and size of the package, they specify packing materials and how to pack.

I once shipped a steel in its case packed in a box and used styrafoam peanuts. The guitar arrived fine but the partition in the case broke due to the package being dropped. The claim was denied because the package was too heavy to use peanuts. I was supposed to use a solid packing. Fortunately, I was able to repair the case.

Jim Landers · From: Spokane, Wash.

Hi Harry,

I think you have run into the "standard" excuse, or "out" if you will, that UPS uses to avoid paying claims. Regardless of how well it was packed or by whom has little to do with it.

I have shipped instruments and other merchandise with UPS for many years and never had a problem of any kind, with the exception of 2 or 3 "misplaced" items that eventually managed to arrive at their destination without damage. Never had a problem,..........until this past July.

I sold the item on Ebay, packed it myself and bought the insurance. The item arrived at it's destination with very obvious damage to the box. When the buyer unpacked the box the item inside had been damaged beyond repair, so I told him to call UPS and see what had to be done to file a claim.

UPS sent an inspector out, and the first thing he said was that it was'nt packed properly but, the inspector took the item and return shipped it to me. When I got it back, it was stuffed into the original box I'd shipped in with "no" packing at all. None!

I went straight to the UPS counter that I had shipped it from originally and told the manager what had happened. She called whoever it was that was in charge of handling the insurance claims and they informed her that the claim had been denied because of improper packing.

When she got off the phone, she relayed the message to me with, "this is the way it is, end of conversation, now get the hell out of here" kind of attitude. It really teed me off. I told her what I thought of her in particular and UPS in general and caused a bit of a scene.

The moral to this story is, rather than stand there in front of the other customers and listen to me any longer, she got back on the phone to whoever she had talked to originally and in less than one minute flat, she had the claim approved and I collected the full amount the item was insured for plus the original shipping charges were refunded. I recieved the check less than 10 days later.

I don't know what she told the claims department but, it's damned obvious that your local UPS agent has a lot of say so in how these claims are handled. So I would suggest you try and get your local manager to go to bat for you. If they're not to anxious to help, you might ask them if they would rather talk to your lawyer.

I don't know if any of this will be of any help to you or not but, it worked for me. Maybe I just got lucky but, when I started raising a ruckus it seemed to get their attention and then she was more than willing to help. Good luck.

Jim

Harry Sheppard · From: Kalispell, MT USA

Thanks for the support guys. I hope this will work itself out.

Jim, I have every intention of going back to the UPS Store tomorrow and getting a few more of my questions answered like why there was no damage to the box on the initial claim but after I received it back, it has a 4" hole in the top like someone stuck a forklift fork through it. Does it really matter who or how you pack it in that case. Funny how the damage to the case is on the top near the hole in the box. I think the UPS Store is trying to protect UPS so I will try to get around them and get to UPS directly.

Brad, is it possible to cross post this topic to the Pedal Steel forum to get as much exposure and ideas as possible? (If only to warn people about UPS so they can prevent it from happening to them).

Thanks to All,

Harry

[This message was edited by Harry Sheppard on 12 November 2003 at 09:31 PM.]

Ron Bednar · From: Rancho Cordova, California, USA

First off, I may be wrong here, but I don't think I am. The guy that you sent the guitar to was the one that was supposed to file the claim, not you. When it leaves your hands to UPS and he accepts delivery, it's technically his, not yours. A similar thing happened to me. I bought a guitar and it arrived damaged. I called the guy I bought it from and the carrier. Both said I needed to file the claim as the receiver. I got paid and kept the original guitar. Your situation is a bit different and I may be wrong, but I believe it's the receiver that files the claim.

You read about UPS damage all the time. I made my living as a ceramic artist for 12 yrs and this is what I found. For any carrier, you have to pack the item to withstand a 12 foot drop onto concrete, thats a fact no matter what they tell you. That means double boxing with, preferably hard foam between the boxes. Always label guitars so they stand upright. They lay them flat on the conveyour belt but will stand them upright in the trucks.
Airbourne has a better saftey record than Fed Ex or UPS. But the safest and most economical is, believe it or not, is US Postal 3Day Express Mail.

Good luck with your claim, I hope it all works out.

Wayne Carver · From: Martinez, Georgia, USA

I received a damaged motorized bike shipped UPS and they said it was not packed properly. If they do pay a claim it is to the person shipping the item. He is the one who bought the insurance. Luckily the man I bought the bike from repaired it for free after I payed shipping. Someone said that I should of just had UPS pick it up after I noticed it was damaged.

Everett Cox · From: Marengo, OH, USA (deceased)

For medical reasons, most of my purchases the past few years has been on-line. Whether large or small, fragile or not, I have had almost no problems at all. UPS, FEDEX, USPS have provided greaat service.

ONE exception was a large and heavy vintage tube amp shipped half way across country via UPS. Though packed well (by seller) it arrived with a corner of the packing box crumpled. I noted this to the driver and suggested he remain while the package was opened and the amp examined. He declined.

Upon inspection, we found the mounting screws had been pulled out and both speakers were loose. The amp seemed to work OK and I could easily remount the speakers. But, not knowing if other damage might have been sustained, both UPS and the seller were contacted and both told ME to file a claim.

I did so, and UPS promptly made a special trip to my rural location, Picked up the amp in it's original packing. They shipped it back to the seller at no charge, and paid HIM the claim settlement. Then the paid HIM the repair cost (which he did, himself) and he reshipped the amp to me.

Same exact thing when the amp arrived the second time! Same procedure, same claim filing and settlement. Only difference was that this time I went ahead and reinforced the speaker mounting and noted such to the UPS guy when he picked up the package.

Would you believe it - when that amp was delivered for the THIRD time, one of the speakers was again knocked loose!!! I gave up and fixed it and said nothing. The thing pops and whistles some but I have no idea whether that's due to shipment damage or just old cap's.

--Everett

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

The person who sends the merchandise is the one who is purchasing the insurance...THEY are the ones who have to file the claim, and THEY are the ones who have to innitiate the insurance claim ..You can show the damaged item to your UPS Service Center, but they will tell you that the person who SENT the item is the one who has to start the ball rolling ..UPS RARELY accepts ANY responsibility for damaged goods .. Like someone said earlier, pack it like it would be dropped from 12 feet onto concrete....Picture the item you sent falling out of a truck at 40 mph...If it will sustain that , MAYBE you have a chance of getting your item shipped safely ... I was able to collect on only 1 claim from UPS, and it took me almost 2 mos.... I had my lawyer send them a letter about future litigation..
It was settled a week later !!...UPS doesn't want to pay, but they don't want a law suit either !!.. We as customers should be able to have a UPS employee check out package, to make sure it's under UPS guidelines, and have him/her sign off on the package ... See how fast they get their sh_ _ together then !!...Then you will REALLY see who's to blame !!...Jim

Harry Sheppard · From: Kalispell, MT USA

Here is an update on my UPS shipping story. I received one more denile letter from UPS and finally took the Dobro to my local UPS ditribution center (NOT The UPS Store) and talked to the station manager. He looked at the Dobro and agreed thet UPS caused the damage and it would not have mattered how it was packed. He reopened the claim and believe it or not they accepted responsibility! Get this, UPS is only responsible for the first $100. The UPS Store's insurance pays the balance. After all the work I went through with UPS, I received another denial letter from the insurance company for the same reasons even though UPS paid their $100. I then called the insurance company who knows how many times and although it took several months, was able to get ALL of my money back. I was very nice and never yelled or threatened them. The insurance adjuster said the only reason she was going to approve the claim was because I was so nice to her. I don't know if I could speeded up the process by getting mad and yelling or threatening them but I like being nice first and it worked this time.

Let this be a warning to everyone. If you return an instrument for any reason, pack it correctly even if it was poorly packed when you received it.

Harry

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Also, over insure it. It will cost $0.35 per every $100.00, so to add an additional $1000.00
will cost $3.50 extra.

If you ever have to settle, you're covered.

Harry Sheppard · From: Kalispell, MT USA

Howard,

Interesting you should bring that up. I purchased the Dobro for $1299.00 and insured it for $1500.00 "to be safe". I only received $1299.00 plus actual shipping charges back minus the insurance. They will absolutely not pay you any more than the original purchase price no matter how much you insure it for and you have to prove the value with an invoice. No invoice, then you must get a written estimate for the value. They will not tell you that overinsuring the item is an absolute waste of money as you will never be able to get more than you paid unless you have someone write a bogus invoice.

Harry

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

n/a

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 17 February 2004 at 07:29 AM.]

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