Chord Theory question

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Hey guys, I'm new at this Chord Theory stuff. Mike's book is helping me tremendusly!
But I have a question about notes on the steel guitar . For instance, with my bar on the 8th fret pickin strings 8,6 and 5 I know those notes are C, E and G. I know this because the book tells me so.

My question is, what's the best way to figure up the notes I'm hittin on any given fret, and any given string? Do I have to start with the open string, say the E string, and figure the notes in the scale up the frets till I get to the fret where my bar is sittin on the E string? Or is there an easier way to figure my notes on whatever fret my bar is sittin on?
Terry

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Mullen D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Terry, that's a good way to start until you start to memorize some of the positions. If you play guitar already, it might be helpful to remember that the E strings on the steel are just like your E strings on a guitar. On a guitar you get your G (barre) chord at the 3rd fret, A chord at 5th fret, etc. Those same frets apply to the steel guitar, and to the names of the notes on the E strings of the steel. So that's a handy shortcut for those who already play guitar.

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Try to train your ear to recognize the pitches of the chord. Do for the one, mi for the 3rd & sol for the 5th, and so on.
The old do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do thing.

If you can train your ear to hear those pitches...which remain the same whatever key you're in - or whatever fret you're on..and whatever pedal position you're in...then it's easier to figure out which note is which.

If you know basic theory you'll know what notes make up a major chord in any key...and if you train your ear to hear those pitches - the 1,3,5 - you can figure out what note is what without counting frets from the open string up, or whatever method you've been using.

At least , it'll be a start....

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Jim, I play guitar and I've memorized my notes on the 6th Big E and 5th A strings. thanks for the tip.

Skip, I hadn't thought of doin it that way. I think I can figure them up that way because I,ve got the Do-Re-Me-Fa-So-La Ti Do in my head. Thanks to both of you guys.Good advice.

Terry

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Mullen D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

When I was teaching pedal steel; I would teach my students to learn the number value of all your strings, in the open position and pedal down position; as a starting basis.
ie: E9 tuning>



1) F# > 9th or 2nd Tone 


2) D# > Maj7 


3) G# > 3rd


4) E  > 1 or root


5) B  > 5th


6) G# > 3rd


7) F# > 9th or 2nd tone


 E  > 1 or root


9) D  > b7


10)B  > 5th



Now using basic a&b pedals making A chord: the 


new number value to the right.


1) F# > 9th or 2nd Tone| 6th


2) D# > Maj7           | b5


3) G# > 3rd            | 1 or root


4) E  > 1 or root      | 5th


5) B  > 5th            | 3rd


6) G# > 3rd            | 1 or root


7) F# > 9th or 2nd tone| 6th


 E  > 1 or root      | 5th


9) D  > b7             | 4th


10)B  > 5th            | 3rd

Then as you learn basic music theory which is
doe ra mi fa so la ti doe
and that spells
1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8
and knowing the intervals between them(how many steps)
You will know that in the no pedal C chord position at the
8th fret; where your root tone(doe) is and your 3rd tone(mi) and your 5th tone
(so)...and so on....and in your pedal down positions and the number values and
intervals between.....will work the same where-ever you are starting your chord
position.
Then from those positions you will be able to alter your chords.
Like in the pedal down; you see where your root is; and around it; you see the
6th tone and you may have a knee that raises the 6th up to the b7; now you have a
A7 chord> or you see where your 3rd tone is and you can let off that pedal from
that 3rd tone and is will lower a whole step to the 9th(2nd tone) tone and now you have
a A9 chord....and so on.
This is the very basic start of what one should know and you will eventually
learn what number value every note is in any position with any pedal or knee lever
combination and then what also is available around it to alternate the chord values.
And you will notice that when most chords are written out; they always include a number;
is why it's important to know number values.
Ok I'm out of breath.....ha.....and that's only the basic start of theory and to know/learn
more; you should see your local PGA(oops I mean)steel guitar professional.
Ricky

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 16 October 2005 at 04:16 PM.]

David Doggett · Posted 16 Oct 2005 4:17 pm

You have the two first steps in the posts above:
1. Learn the notes at each fret of the root string of the tuning - that's the E string in the open pedal position. You will also want to learn this for the 6th or A string for the pedals down position (since you already know the A string on guitar, it's the same). There is also a root on the 10th string with the A pedal and F lever - it is C# at the nut, and C at the 11th fret (this is more a passing chord, and not a typical root position for most players, so maybe you can skip that). And it is also a good idea to learn the notes and frets for the 10th string root for the minor chord with the A pedal down; and also for the 7th string root for the minor chord with the B and C pedals engaged. These minor chords/scales are not so necessary for country, but are essential for jazz and other kinds of music.

2. As Ricky advised, learn the scale numbers for the other strings and pedals/levers at each of the above positions.

3. Start with the C scale at the 8th fret and learn to put the numbers you learned above to the notes of the C scale. At this point you will be able to read music in the key of C. At the 3rd fret you can learn to put the C scale notes to the numbers at that fret with the pedals down; likewise at the 11th fret for the A pedal/F lever combination. Continue this process for the A minor scale at the minor chord positions. Now you have the keys of C and A minor (which have the same scale notes).

4. The above 3 steps are a darn good start, and probably more than most steelers know. If you really want to be able to read music, you will need to learn to do all the above at other root positions for other common keys. There are only a very few steelers who can do that (I can't). It is a very good idea to at least learn the E scale open at the nut. This is very helpful in learning about the whole copedant and examining other people's copedant charts, which are all written in the key of E for the E9 neck.

5. Along with steps 1 and 2, most steelers begin to learn to use the root string scale/fret knowledge to find chords. For playing by ear, this is more important than continuing with steps 4 and 5 to learn to read music.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 17 October 2005 at 08:26 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

My take is :
Learn the basic chord degrees ( 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th etc)
for ALL pedals and levers and P+L combinations.

Then learn the sub chord degrees for each.
There are usually several partial chords
to be found on each version (P+L comb.)
So you find the BIG chord then the smaller ones.

Try to put the "chord note group" to use in a logical progression when you have found it.
This locks it into a context for you.

Lapsteelers do this as a normal part of making the isntrument work.
New PSG players early on MUCH LESS.
but the guys they listen to do it all the time.

Maybe because for the newbie the amount of PSG information is swamping them,
and for the old hands, many started on lapsteel pre-pedals,
or with MANY less pedals, so more theory and less TAB got them working.

This is a long term learning thing.

Eventually the most logical ones for YOUR use as YOU see it,
will pop up at you when you use a lever or pedal or combination.

PS. Don't imagine for a minute your will EVER be done with this...
So don't get stressed you are not getting to the END fast enough.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 16 October 2005 at 09:44 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Terry,
All these guys are right (or, 'these guys are all right'--you can trust they're not pulling your leg) and it may seem like a lot, but you'll be amazed at what you absorb over time.
Don't try to get it all today; leave some for tomorrow.

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

All of ya'll have been very helpful. I really appreciate it.

Terry

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Mullen D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

Ricky, that's a good way to explain it. While I know the names and numbers of the notes in your diagrams, I have to stop and think about them at times so I'll print out the charts you made and post the on the wall in my little music room. Thanks, and every one else too.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com

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