hip-hop samples--canned spam?

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Current topics bring this to mind.
I was in the grocery store this morning while a 'singer' sang something with the boom-shook-boom schtick beat, as the opening measures of Satie's 'Three Gymnopides', played on synthetic bells over and over in the mix, without the variations.

The question: tribute or ripoff?
I know the kids who buy this stuff are getting ripped off in production values, so ripoff naturally comes to mind.

It's bad enough to hear the riffs from 'Every Breath You Take' and 'This much is True' lifted to replace the lack of themes in urban music; but I have heard 'O Fortuna' and Barber's 'Adagio' absolutely butchered in the course of dropped-in samples. Do the composers get credits? Do they get royalties? Or would they rather be totally unassociated with this stuff?

Is it a tribute, a quote, or grand theft larceny?

Stephen Gregory · Posted 24 Sep 2005 7:48 am

Absolute Rip-Off's!! I cannot believe the trash presented as entertainment today. Not one shred of musical creativity, and the insipid use of other peoples art to support the lack of art by todays "artists" ie rappers, hip hoppers and such, is an insult! The worst part is, people are "buying into it".

David Doggett · Posted 24 Sep 2005 9:25 am

Um, well, I have to listen to hip-hop as I drive my kids around. And I must say that hearing familiar themes from other sources makes it more enjoyable for me. Plus, I get in a little music education for the kids by calling out what the original was. It goes in reverse too. Hip-hoppers quote each other all over the place. The kids recognize that and point it out to me. There's even some Ray Charles sampling on a recent hit. I would have never noticed it if the kids hadn't pointed it out.

The fact is that a lot of classical music was a reworking of European folk songs. Pop music has always borrowed from classical sources - remember The Lover's Concerto? And a number of country hits were based on gospel or hymn melodies, not to mention tons of Scots-Irish fiddle tunes. What about Charlie's recent track based on a Japanese folk tune? I think this kind of borrowing is endemic to all music.

erik · Posted 24 Sep 2005 1:42 pm

I have a House mix rendition of I Know A Place. It is done rather well. I'm Coming Out done by Puffy is a musical gem. It is better than the original song, IMO. Everyone seems to be following the trend you speak of, which dilutes the possibilities of finding one that clicks. It can be done, though. I personally do not listen to hip-hop or rap, or trance.

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-johnson

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

It's a matter of economics and profits. Our corporate society world is in an "anything goes for a profit" mode and I doubt if anything will change it.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 24 September 2005 at 08:36 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

David, only you could make a cogent argument for the practice and use it as educational material. The fact that the kids could point out a Ray Charles phrase means that your method is working.

Of course, Aaron Copeland has used several folks themes in his works, just as I used 'Goodbye, Old Paint.' I suppose there's no real difference in quoting 'Sakura' and quoting Satie; I seem to be judging the music it's used in.

I'll try to look on it with a different ear.
Good argument.

Stephen Gregory · Posted 25 Sep 2005 9:06 am

With all due respect, I ain't buyin' it. No offense and to each his own,live and let live.

[This message was edited by Stephen Gregory on 25 September 2005 at 10:07 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I'm sure that the copyright expired on Satie's works long ago. Pieces like his Gymnopedies are firmly entrenched in our culture.

The kids aren't going to listen to classical radio, but the ones who are taking piano lessons will probably come across Satie at some point and, having heard the theme, might be inclined to learn the piece.

Hip-hop doesn't bother me at all, because I control my own audio environment. There's no hip-hop in my CD collection. Why worry about something that you don't have to listen to?

I'm sure some people thought that Jethro Tull "absolutely butchered" J.S. Bach, but that arrangement really inspired me as a kid.

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Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

True, true; but he did a real arrangement of Bourree (I think), not just a token line or two.
Guess I'll have to get with the program and change my tune.
It's just the fact that these 'tributes' go into music with such poor production values.
Maybe mine aren't any better.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I control my conscious musical choices to a certain degree, but I do watch 5 - 10 hours of TV a week (more during football season) and I'm amazed by the assault factor - little bits and snippets overlapping, news show theme songs overtaken by blaring car commercials, "safe" soft-rap selling fast food etc. I keep a solidbody six-string tucked under the arm of my rocking chair to blare back with and I'm quick with the remote, but the evil still seeps in. I'm most alarmed when I'm driving along with my windows open, I'm overtaken by a cacophony of throbbing, pounding, clattering and belligerent hollering, I look over at the offending vehicle, and their windows are rolled up tight - they'll be stone-deaf by 40, but they're going to keep turning it up till then.

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