Being the back up for canned rhythm tracks

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Maybe you long time musicians or, those who are used to playing with canned rhythm tracks will think I am very much a “one dimensional” musician with this; however, I found that working with canned backup is not my cup of tea.

I have played to some extent with a rhythm CD that I got from Billy Cooper, mainly for the gospel work, but that has been the extent of it. Last night I played at a small social gathering that had canned rhythm CDs and the people (five days ago) picked out the fifteen tunes they wanted me to play. It was a nightmarish drag as far as I am concerned.

What I found was that I had lost all freedom to wander, adlib or throw in extensions to any melody work. Basically, I was very much the confined backup to the canned rhythm tracks on the CD. If I did not keep within the confines of the CD rhythm track, I was either left behind or had an embarrassig job getting back into the melody rhythm that was dictated by the canned stuff.

Do any of you guys get all pi***d off with being placed in the role of being nothing more than a back up to canned music?

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 12 June 2005 at 09:14 PM.]

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

How in blazes does one get to correct the spelling in the thread's title? "bac up" ???

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Live playing is my life blood.

I am convinced that the "right" tracks could be produced, but I hae yet to play with any "midi" tracks, drum or otherwise that didn't leave me flat.

No "tension" or "interaction", is the most I could come up with.

I've done several jobs that had them, and I didn't like them. For one, the people with lousy rythym can't play against them any better. The only difference being that they couldn't drag or push a weak rythym section.

Mostly I like the "fight", and at best it's just "dynamic tension" that brings out the best in people.

EJL

PS. Email the Sysop, or moderator, and they will gladly fix it for you when they aren't refereeing possum fights..

[This message was edited by Eric West on 12 June 2005 at 09:22 PM.]

c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

I think good trax are great. I have made many a dollar w/trax when the club, hotel etc; would not pay for a two or three piece band. I'll do almost anything for money. CC

Andy Greatrix · From: Edmonton Alberta

It's very true that tracks don't have the soul a live band has, but it's like working with a metronome. It will help your timing improve. When you learn to groove with tracks, It's easier to play with good musicians who will appreciate your improved sense of time.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

The issue with many back-up tracks in my view is they really don't give the player room to stretch, or allow you to keep repeating the same phrases over and over..

But that being said, back-up tracks can be a fine medium for good seat time.

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 June 2005 at 01:37 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I have no technical problem playing with backup tracks or with Band-in-a-Box. I'm used to very structured music. It's a lot like playing a recording session.

But I know what you mean. Live interaction between musicians is a large part of what makes music music. If you're performing solo, you really yearn for the freedom to play with the tempo or even with the arrangement. It's much more satisfying and much more of an art to play solo than it is to play with tracks.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)
p.s. I fixed the title for you.

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 13 June 2005 at 07:28 AM.]

Adrienne Clasky · From: Florida, USA

My husband, a drummer, wants me to tell you that you are one hundred percent right and anyone who disagrees with you is. . .well, I'm not posting what he said. LOL. Even as a listener, I am so profoundly tired of those canned tracks. They always sound like, well, canned tracks. Imagine if the steel part were canned. Sheesh.

Thanks for the great post!

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Playing with a live band is much more fun... Especially if I get to step on the organist when she tries to get intimidating.

Alan Shank · From: Woodland, CA, USA

"What I found was that I had lost all freedom to wander, adlib or throw in extensions to any melody work. Basically, I was very much the confined backup to the canned rhythm tracks on the CD. If I did not keep within the confines of the CD rhythm track, I was either left behind or had an embarrassig job getting back into the melody rhythm that was dictated by the canned stuff."

OK, what if you're playing with other people (humans, that is), and you decide to "wander, adlib or throw in extensions?" Then they are in the situation of trying to figure out what the hell happened. Obviously, if you are playing alone, you can do anything you wish, but if you are playing with other people you need to be sorta on the same page, no?

I live out in the boonies, and I have to use BIAB for guitar and bass when I practice or when my brother and I pick bluegrass. You can get used to it. The main problem is the arrangement; you have to come in at exactly the right time, because the music won't wait for you to remember the next line. That can be a pain in the ass, but it teaches you to think ahead.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

Wayne Morgan · From: Rutledge, TN, USA

Its more fun to play with a live music,,But I build my tracks on BIAB and enjoy it when I don't have anyone to play with and I do quite a few little gigs with the BIAB boys.

Wayne

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

The bennies of a real drummer are obvious. You can vamp while you're talking to the audience or scratchin' your butt or whatever. You can change tempo if you called the meter out wrong. You can change keys and even songs. One of my favorites was to do a bunch of songs in a row with different tempos and keys. Just signal the drummer for a break and start the new song and he'd jump right in to the proper meter.

Did that quite often with a drum machine except for changing meter. What you start with is what you have to stick to.

With BIAB and earlier sequencing programs when you put in other instruments and number of bars for the song, that's it. Heaven help you if that blonde comes up with a question or a request. Lost forever on a 4 minute song.

I don't think I'd ever play a sequenced gig like that.

Too many blondes and too little time.

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Alan; I have played with bands for around forty years and believe, any band’s musicians who are worth their salt, can, and will do a lot of leaning when another member of the band does a little stretching on a melody or goes off track a bit. Give jazz and blues a whirl if you want to see what being able to follow adlibbing is all about.

Better still, do a jam with Roy Clark on his guitar. Half the time even he has no idea where his fingers will end up on the neck of his guitar. As he says, “If it feels good, go for it because the boys in the band will find you eventually.”

Rhythm tracks mean you have to be a good little boy and follow the track almost mechanically or look like a dork trying to play catch up. I can make myself look like a dork all by myself and with out a rhythm track to encourage me.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Well, as usual, I see this in a different light..Rhythm tracks are and can be a great tool...in my view..just one more medium to use to "get it done".

I too have been on the bandstands for over 40 years but I can't recall 1 time when the band stopped and started over several times so that I could work out the bugs on some new phrases I was attempting to play...

Yes tracks can be sterile for sure..But I have also played with some very STERILE real musicians too..we all have..sometimes I'm one of them !

A forward progressing journey will use any tool available to get there....

you gotta start somewhere..and ya gotta stay fresh in between gigs too....

it's up to each of us individually to find the method that works best for us...

Sterile ? Mechancal ? yes..but better than nothng at all....Pitch, Tuning, Timing, Intonation etc..can all be a great result of playing Sterile and Mechanical.

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 June 2005 at 12:47 PM.]

Jim Hinton · From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA

Last year I played for a couple of months with some folks that were great vocalists, but not experienced musicians.

What they had done was to arrange for live music to accompany their vocals using Karaoke recordings as the basis for their act.

It made for some very frustrating gigs, but the resulting sound was good in spite of who was available to play.

I don't think any of us would like doing that for long, but it is a way of having a paycheck when good players and arranged sets aren't available.

I'm not ashamed of having done the work, but I must say that the back up on some of the Karaoke disks wasn't bad, and it was like being a magician ... image was fake, but the public was fooled.

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

While I prefer playing with live humans, I also have played some steel shows to tracks of my own creation, which has allowed me to present material either unfamiliar to the available backup band or basically unplayable with the musicians available (full string sections and "horns" and the like) These presentations are generally pretty structured anyway for me. If I feel the need to stretch, I save it for the jam at the end or the next LTH gig...

It's just a tool

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I don't use other peoples tracks, I make up my own so there IS a bit of creativity in them. They sound the way I want them to sound. I'd be lost without BIAB. I live up here on the tundra in the country, and to round up a bunch of musicians would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Erv

Dayna Wills · From: Sacramento, CA (deceased)

Here's the view from a singer: Tracks work for me since I don't play an instrument. What I find is that I love to sing for, what I call, my "old folks". I sing for retirement homes, physical rehabs, and rest homes. I get to sing everything from country to jazz, plus my own western swing tracks. My parents saw me sing one gig in Vegas before they passed away and I like to pretend they are in the audience. I am picky about the sound of the tracks and the guy who owns the store where I buy a lot of stuff allows me to play them before I buy them. I wanted to do Elvis's version of "Fool Such As I", but I had to pass cause the bass(?) singer sounded like Froggy. Tracks have their place, but nothin' beats the live interaction with the other players, especially when you're in the zone.

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