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Topic: More American Idol-where did the $ go??? |
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 30 May 2005 7:27 am |
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The business reports came out and it is reported that the whole of the proceeds for American Idol this year is right at 1 BILLION dollars!!!!! That includes TV, videos, CDs the whole thing.
My question is this. How much compensation do the kids get while they are doing the TV shows?
I have also read that they are locked into contracts with the Idol producers that are iron clad with such clauses as a 5 million dollar fine for discussing contract stuff with the press etc. Anyone really know if these Idol contestants own any of their future or not??
This whole Idol thing is looking very subserviant to me. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 30 May 2005 8:10 am
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The only one who has managed to break the contract so far is Clay Aiken. He did it by retaining a top entertainment attorney. Surely the AI producers tightened up the contract after that.
"They" say that the Idols are getting $60,000 each for the current tour. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 30 May 2005 9:39 am
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| EB. My friend Jess Rosen here in Atlanta is the attorney who got Aiken out of his contract. Thanks for reminding me of that. Jess is not a bad jazz guitarist. Next time we work a gig together I will ask him about the details of the Aiken contract. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 30 May 2005 1:34 pm
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Many of these contestants don't deserve to get much anyway. Most of them do not have any experience, and have spent little or no time paying dues like us hard-working musicians. They go from unknowns to superstars overnight, and that kind of quick rise usually has a quick fall. They'll do anything to be famous, even appear on a billion-dollar grossing show for peanuts. They get what they deserve, if you ask me. If I was a parent of one these contestants, I would steer my kid away from this contest and into hard, honest work playing real music with a real band. It's a contest of humiliation, and anyone who gets suckered into it is to be pitied. Even the winners generally go nowhere, and if they do they're always tainted by the fact that they are where they are because of a TV show....that's a drag. The real winners (or losers, depending on your perspective)are the producers and creators of the show, who laugh at all these wannabes lining up to gamble on a sure loss while the money piles up.
Pretty heavy for my first post, but nice to be involved in the forum.
Chris from Canada |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 30 May 2005 3:19 pm
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quote:
...the proceeds for American Idol this year is right at 1 BILLION dollars!!!!! That includes TV, videos, CDs the whole thing...
My question is this. How much compensation do the kids get...
I'd say, considerably less. 
The purpose of this "show" (or any other TV show, for that matter), is to make money for the producer. As none of the contestants are stars to begin with, they have very little bargaining power, and probably get compensated accordingly. |
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Dave Boothroyd
From:
Staffordshire Moorlands
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Posted 31 May 2005 12:48 am
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Nigel Lithgoe, the producer, on the other hand has done rather well, to understate the situation by a very long way.
He was made redundant from a job at ITV and went freelance without much success until he came up with the Pop Idol formula.
Incidentally, he played the part of "Nasty Nigel" in the first UK series- the role he gave to Simon Cowell when he needed the extra investment to break the format in the US.
My info comes from a long time associate of Nigel's (who claims that it was he who came up with the idea first)
I do hear that the contracts are truly savage, and seem mainly designed to keep an artist from having any success outsdide the formula.
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Cheers!
Dave
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Theresa Galbraith
From:
Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
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Posted 31 May 2005 6:02 am
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Congrat's to all involved!  |
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erik
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Posted 31 May 2005 6:36 am
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No doubt they are trained and coached for free.
[edit, wow, i actually typed couched not coached, wonder what THAT means?  ][This message was edited by erik on 31 May 2005 at 07:38 AM.] |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 31 May 2005 7:34 am
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I don't think they're better off than the average joe. There's a sense of pride and satisfaction that comes with hard work and being true to yourself. A lot of talented singers and writers out there are average joes who enjoy a fulfilling regional career that's rewarding and solid in structure.
A lot of these American Idol kids are getting picked for these spots because they're either gorgeous, or so bizarre that it's a novelty. To my ear, they really can't sing a whole song without going off key at least twice, and their stage presence is uncomfortable to watch.
Yes, right now they're probably soaking up all the fake adoration, but that will fade and they'll be left confused and depressed as to why it didn't last. A seed not properly planted and cared may sprout briefly and beautifully but will soon wither and die. This spotlight of American Idol does long-term damage to some of these people. They are given the impression that no hard work is needed to have a successful career. It is wrong.
What's the name of the winner last year? I can't remember. Does anyone care? Is anyone sitting on the edge of their seat knawing at their nails in anticipation of her CD? Does she plan on releasing one? Just wondering.....
This is not my idea of success, and I'm sure "whatever her name is" is starting to get that same sinking feeling.
I am a firm believer in real songwriting and real performance, and expressing yourself no matter what the level of success. My idea of success is building a fan base through hard work, which makes you feel proud and responsible for where you are in your career. Fame and stardom invariably leads to misery, especially if it's sudden. If it happens because of years of effort, that's different. Then there's a sense of accomplishment and appreciation that goes along with it. Remove this, and what you have left is a spoiled debutante with no soul.
I've met many musicians, and the young famous ones were the worst. On the other hand, real musicians like Levon Helm and Rick Danko were the gracious ones, shaking hands and making small talk. They're people who influence how I perceive stardom and where it should lie on my list of priorities.
......I just remembered her name: Fantasia. It sure is quite a fantasy, apparently. |
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Jim Hinton
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Posted 31 May 2005 7:46 am
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Chris:
I understand your passion, and respect your viewpoints. I think you're a bit too harsh in your assessment.
You have to ask yourself the question, "Where would most of these kids be, if not for the break on American Idol"?
Most of the performers would never have gotten their "15 minutes of fame" in such a huge way! I spent 20 years playing in good to decent bands, and would have died to get on that big a production. Of course, I'm just an instrumentalist, and who cares?
Smile, live and let live. The kids are digging the break! |
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Mike Winter
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 31 May 2005 11:35 am
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Chris -- I sure wish there were more folks like Levon and Rick. I'm playing with guys that have similar, humble attitudes...and it's great...makes all the difference in the world.
www.bluemoonhighway.com |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 31 May 2005 1:44 pm
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| Jim: You're right, my viewpoint is a little harsh. It's just that I've seen the fall after a quick rise and sometimes people really regret jumping at these chances that promise so much and let them down in the end. I understand that there are a lot of people who enjoy the run of temporary stardom, but they're usually the ones who have someting else going in their lives and are not totally hanging onto the promise of fame as their only source of happiness. I agree it would be fun to play on such a huge production. It's obviously a learning experience for the kids, and that's a good thing. They do work hard while they're involved, and that's also a good thing. |
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Jim Hinton
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Posted 31 May 2005 3:12 pm
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Hi Chris:
Yes, I understand the kids will mostly all fall back into oblivion ... but isn't it better to be a "has been" than a "never was"?
I still dream of the times when I had a few fleeting moments of "minor stardom", and at my age, "That's why God gave us memories, so we could have roses in December". I'm too old and ugly to have much success now!!
Keep smiling my friend! |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 31 May 2005 9:45 pm
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I'm in a position here in Eastern Canada where I've had good success as a singer/ songwriter and guitarist of the band "Brothers in Stereo".(www.brothersinstereo.com)
We've had several top ten radio hits, and have played big shows on bills that have in excess of 8,000 people. that's nothing compared to American Idol audiences, but it has put me in the position of rubbing shoulders with some famous people. None of their success originated from a TV variety show.
Anyway, I feel that I've progressed at a steady pace since I was 14. I've experienced a rate of success that is easy to map: steady work and perseverance. I am recognized regionally and nationally, and that's fine with me. I know how I acheived that, and no one can take it away. I'm 34 now, and probably a little crusty for my age. But I am a traditionalist and idealist when it comes to music and my musical heroes. I'd rather make steady bar pay over a course of many years than a big chunk for a short period of time with embarrassing "didn't you used to be..." questions coming at me for years after. I make a great living from playing pedal steel in a local country band (The 8-track Favourites), and wouldn't trade it for American Idol in a million years. A great living to me means the wife and son are comfortable and happy.
Money doesn't seem to mean that much to the musicians I know in this part of the world. It is certainly not a catalyst for selling out on a lame TV show. My musician friends only want to live comfortably and have a full fridge, and to make punchy, heart-felt and solid music "for the sake of the song" (to quote Townes Van Zant). Too much money ruins the music, if you ask me.
Fame is flaky, and a ton of money is
trouble.[This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 31 May 2005 at 10:47 PM.] |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 6:06 am
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| All the comments are cool, but I am still trying to sort out the economics here of this Idol situation. The show brings in a BILLION dollars and so far it seems the kids who are the focal point of the show are making small change. I am all for capitalism and profit and all of that for the risk takers in a biz venture, but when the real people in the show are the contestants then it seems that such an imbalance in compensation is verging on servitude albeit voluntary. I have not made up my mind yet, but I am leaning towards not supporting this Idol concept. Seems the Idol producers take at least 50% of the money made by the winners. Well Tom Parker took that from Elvis--my wifes' first real estate company took that as a commission from her earnings--so is that too big a cut??...I don't know. Is the trade off of a girl on a farm one day in Okl. and on a stage as a winner the next a good deal for her in regards to what she has to pay the Idol producers. Odds are WAY against her doing this on her own. I just think the kids deserve a little more of a cut than they are offered. Still thinking..... |
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John Steele
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 11:26 am
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Bill, they're objects.
Just one of the tools which are used to make a program for the producers. Not unlike the camera whirring away, or the mat they wipe their feet on when coming through the door in the morning.
Selling human degradation is a big money maker. Back in the 18th century, you could pay your fee and go into the lunatic asylum to watch them whack the nuts around. It's kinda like that.
-John
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www.ottawajazz.com |
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Jim Hinton
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 11:46 am
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American Idol is a business. I cannot understand it any other way. Nothing is fair in business.
If anyone feels life is fair, they must not be dealing with reality.
My boss here at work, gets a salary of $360,000 plus a bonus of $125,000, plus stock options. I used to get all wound up thinking that was wrong. The other engineers on staff don't make a small fraction of that kind of money, but you know what ... ? If I don't like it, there's nothing stopping me from starting my own company and doing the same thing. Except, of course, the fact that I'm not smart enough to know how to do that.
The American Idol folks have the largest television audience in the nation ... and they did it all with unknown talent. How do they do that? If anyone else had the "secret recipe", doesn't it seem likely that they could do it too?
The great part of being in a free country is we all have the oportunity to succeed or fail all on our own merit.
I suspect that I feel a bit jealous of huge success, but wish I could figure out how to do it too. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 2:17 pm
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| Well-said, Jim.......nobody forces these people to accept the offers of petty cash compared to the procucers' millions. Too bad most of them are too starry-eyed, young and naive to fully grasp the situation. |
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Jim Hinton
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2005 7:59 pm
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| Exactly. God gave us all "free will", and I have to admit ... if I had a chance to perform in front of 35 million people, I wouldn't want to turn it down. |
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Dave Horch
From:
Frederick, Maryland, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2005 3:11 am
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| Quote: |
| "They" say that the Idols are getting $60,000 each for the current tour |
I wish someone could confirm that figure. If true, it amounts to slave labor.
My guess is that all this results from the contract would-be "contestants" must sign while standing in the long line for the "auditions". At that point, they'll sign anything without council, because, what the heck, they're just responding to a dare from someone. Who in that long audition line brings an entertainment attorney, or really expects to even get in the competition in the first place? But once the train leaves the station, and they're on it, it's too late when they realize they've been punk'd.
That said, I watched the show - so who really got punk'd? Hmmm??? |
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Jim Hinton
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 2 Jun 2005 5:21 am
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| I suspect the money is there for anyone, from Jerry Springer to Fear Factor, who can line up the most people willing to subject themselves to humiliation. Simon himself is now an American idol for dishing out the most. |
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Dave Horch
From:
Frederick, Maryland, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2005 8:26 am
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From that news story: "Underwood's career will be guided by music guru Clive Davis, who will also produce her first full-length album"
Well that doesn't suck![This message was edited by Dave Horch on 02 June 2005 at 09:26 AM.] |
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Dave Horch
From:
Frederick, Maryland, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2005 2:24 am
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I take that back - perhaps it does... After thinking about it for 24 hours and finally listening to the recording of Independence Day being pimped by the AI producers, I've changed my mind.
If that I.D. recording is any indication of Clive Davis attempting to produce modern country rock, Ms. Underwood is in big big trouble. What a gawdawful pile of uninspired junk. Underwood sings very well and I enjoy her voice, but the MUSIC sounds like a quickly recorded karaoke track. They're gonna have to do better than that if they expect the "regulars" to buy it. Just terrible! |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 3 Jun 2005 11:03 pm
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That's not a surprise to hear. Everything that has come from the idol winners has been dribble. This is the point I've been trying to get at all along: there is no good ending to any story that has an American Idol attached to it. Even the Kelly Clarkson stuff is reheated Avril Lavine, big time. Clive Davis, influencial as he might be, is not on the cutting edge these days. He's out for a buck like everyone else. Do you think he's in the studio coaching her? I'd bet high numbers against it. It's just another show biz smoke screen. If she has no soul to begin with, it's unlikely anyone will be able to coax it out of her.
Fans of country would be better off looking in their own backyard for grassroots talent than waiting on this contest winner to guide the way. Buying into her is like falling for a phony commercial.....the real thing is out there, you just have to look for it. |
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