What other famous LP moments were fabricated?

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

I've always been enthralled by Johnny Cash's classic Live at Folsom Prison album and chilled by the crowd reaction to certain lines he sang. Now we learn it was sham! What's next? Don't tell me Ella didn't really forget the words to Mack the Knife on Ella in Berlin when she ad lib'd so gloriously. Sigh.

From Publishers Weekly:
The most notorious moment on the live 1968 album Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison occurs when the Man in Black growls the killer line from his 1956 hit "Folsom Prison Blues"—"I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"—and a convict whoops seemingly in solidarity. Actually, that reaction was added post-production, writes Streissguth: "What the record buyers heard after Cash uttered the bloody line was pure image-making.... In reality, the crowd had remained enthralled by the first glimpse and words of the black circuit rider before them,…saving their clamorous gusts exclusively for its conclusion."

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

Well, most 1960s records had something done to make them more appealing, the Beach Boys overdubbed a little on their first live set, the Jefferson Airplane overdubbed a lot on their 1968 live set.

Or the fact that a lot of live albums are pulled together from various gigs.
An interesting example is the Allman Brothers Fillmore reissue CD, the special edition one features a couple of versions of Whipping Post spliced together.
Fans go nuts for live Allmans Bros. material, but for the Fillmore set the label decided that it would be better to tamper with the tracks. Weird.
The Allmans actually have an online store where you can buy whole gigs they've issued as CDs, very nice.

So, we're not really getting quite the live experience hinted at, it's more a compilation of live recordings that have been worked on to make them easier to digest. That's generally a record company decision, they don't trust us to like the real thing I suppose.

Dan Sawyer · From: Studio City, California, USA

That's interesting Andy. It brings to mind those old BB King records which sounded like 'live' performances but were actually done in studio. Later, an small 'audience' of maybe, ten people, overdubbed wildly enthusiastic reactions to his performance. (I'm not referring to "Live at the Regal").

Funny you should mention the Ella; Live in Berlin, because i've heard she didn't forget the lyrics and that she did something similar every night. Still a classic performance, though.

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

The "Live from Northern Quebec" medley on Gram Parsons' "GP" album was a studio job. Apparently they just brought in some friends, and used audience sounds from some live show. It was never pointed out, and for many years fans allegedly searched for more "lost tracks" from a Northern Quebec concert which never did take place.
-John
p.s. The medley is "Hickory Wind" and "Cash on the Barrelhead".

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www.ottawajazz.com

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

An LP I bought around '73 was Charles Mingus w/ Eric Dolphy, Ted Curson & Dannie Richmond. Absolutely brilliant set. I think it was the first jazz album I'd ever bought and it had a huge impact on me. It also helped define Mingus in my mind as a cranky eccentric. He harangues the house to not ring the register while he's playing and the audience to not rattle the ice in their glasses and to not applaud after solos but hold their applause until after the song is over (and it won't matter then anyway, he says).
Well I found out many years later that this album was cut in the studio. Jerk. (said in fondness).

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I played one time at the Bluenotes 3 am jam run by Ted Curson,..
I didn't find him a sympatico experience...
I never went back a 2nd time, and TC was the reason.

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

I heard tell Jay Graydon's fabulous guitar solo on "Peg" by Steely Dan was pieced together from 17 different takes. I could be wrong though- it sure sounds fairly contiguous...

John Pelz · From: Kettering, Ohio, USA

I don't know that I'd call this an out & out "fabrication," but I was kind of disappointed to learn (a long time after the fact) that Robbie Robertson did a fair number of overdubs on Bob Dylan & The Band's "Basement Tapes," and included in the final release demos not recorded during the original Basement Tapes sessions. I'd always figured that what I heard on the record was strictly from the original sessions, but evidently that wasn't entirely the case. I still think "The Basement Tapes" is a great album, though...

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I'm not sure if fabricated is quite the right word, but: The Grateful Dead were famous for their improvisational skills, moreso in the early years. One of their most famous "jam" songs was "Dark Star", immortalized on Live/Dead, recorded March 1, 1969 at the Fillmore East. On February 11, 1969, they played it almost EXACTLY the same, including the psychedelic space-out section. I suspect that these guys actually practiced pretty hard? (Moreso in the early years?)

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Jay Graydon's solo on Twilight Tone, by Manhattan Transfer was done the same way too.
4 different tracks and automation, I believe pre protools.

Mark Butcher · From: Scotland

One of my favorite 'live' records is Gold Dust by Sandy Denny. It was a concert recorded a few weeks before she died some thirty years ago. The original tapes were pretty poor so the band including Jerry Donahue and some great steel by Pete Wilshire dubbed to her voice twenty five years on. Its a great concert, great live feel, great build to a climax, great playing.

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Sho-Bud Pro 1
Many stringed things.
www.marksmandolins.com

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Looks like we can still believe in Ella, Dan. According to her piano player Paul Smith from http://www.pitt.edu/~atteberr/jazz/articles/ella.html:

Paul Smith, who accompanies Ella on that album, regards it as one of her finest: "In some ways," Smith told me, "it's a shame people remember that album only for 'Mack the Knife.' It's got some other fine things on it. 'Too Darn Hot' and 'Gone With the Wind' are nice swingers, and the Gershwin ballads, 'The Man I Love' and 'Summertime' are perfectly done."

Smith maintains that in her prime, Ella was as close to perfection as any singer has ever been. "She had a great sense of timing and great pitch. All of her impulses were very musical. Thus, she was easy to accompany. In those days, she was right on the money night after night."

Clearly, however, Ella's biggest hit from the album, and one of the biggest hits she ever had, was 'Mack the Knife,' which became legendary. She forgot the words, so the story goes, made up her own, and fashioned from them a hit. Wilfred Middlebrooks, who was her bassist at the time, corroborates the story.

"When we went out on tour, we had a show, and she usually didn't change it. We might vary the encores, but that was about all. Usually. Once in a while, when Ella was bored with the routine or feeling especially loose, she'd mix things up. She didn't do it often, but every three or four weeks, on a whim, she'd call for something out of the blue.

"That night in Berlin, we were in front of twelve thousand people and at the end of a midnight concert. We had played Brussels earlier, flown to Berlin and been up for twenty-two hours. We were all so tired we couldn't hold our heads up, when Ella turns around and says, 'Let's do "Mack the Knife."

"My heart sank. I was too tired. We were in front of too many people to try something crazy, and I knew Ella didn't know the tune. I said, 'Well, golly Ella. . .' but before I could say anymore she had turned around and was announcing it. I looked at Paul and he just grinned. Of course he could play anything, but I was still a young dude and needed to run things down once. Paul said, 'I'll start us with the "Here Comes Charlie" vamp in G.' I could handle that, so we commenced. And just about the time I started feeling good (after a couple of choruses), Ella gave Paul a hand signal and switched to A-flat. She had great pitch, and I could hear just where she was going, but staying with her was something else. Paul just looked up at me and grinned.

"I thought, 'Well, I know she doesn't know this tune, so surely she'll stay put,' but I'll be damned if she didn't change keys again at the end of the next chorus, and the next and the next. We ended that thing in D-flat. It was all Paul could do to keep from laughing at me, for I was hanging on by the fingernails, as they say. I remember thinking at the end of the fourth or fifth chorus, 'Well, she's about as lost as she can get, Louis Armstrong will show up any minute,' because when Ella got lost in a swing number, she usually fell back on her Louis imitation, which was a sure fire a crowd pleaser. And sure enough, about that time, here came Louis.

"I was so tired and bothered that night, that I didn't really hear the tune. It was only later, after the record came out, that I realized what a great performance it was. And it was absolutely spontaneous. Fortunately, when we did the tune the following year on the Ella Returns to Berlin album, we had rehearsed it and used only one key change--though Ella still didn't get the lyrics quite right."

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 16 January 2005 at 02:54 PM.]

Dwight Rudd · From: Danville, Virginia, USA

I heard one or both of EC's live Crossroads solos were spliced on Wheels of Fire. Anyone know? Any internet links about this?

Jody Sanders · From: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.

Years ago I had an interest in a studio. We would do "live" perfomances for local bands to use as demo tapes for booking purposes. We had tapes of club noise. applause, laughter, and many other sounds that we could dub in on their tape to make it sound live. Wasn't quite legit, but if we had not done it, they would have went to our competitor and get the same thing, We only did the recording. They made up their on flyers as to the demo tape.. I considered it a service, and if they wanted to mis-represent the facts, that was their problem. Jody.

Geoff Brown · From: Nashvegas

Just to clarify on Jason's comments regarding the Allman's Fillmore Concerts cd:

Two songs were produced using tracks from 2 different shows...Liz Reed (1st and 2nd shows 3/13/71) and You Don't Love Me (1st show, 3/13/71 and 2nd show, 3/12/71.
Whipping Post was recorded during the 2nd show 3/13/71,with nothing added or removed, as is the case with the remainder of the tunes. Tom Dowd discusses the process of editing the songs together from 2 different shows in the liner notes, so I don't think there was any attempt to mislead anyone. I think this was a labor of love on the part of Dowd. I'm thankful for his efforts, and find the cd a great listen.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Someone told me the Peter Frampton Live EP was studio. Anyone know for sure? JP

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Amos Garrett's solo in "Midnight at the Oasis" was a composite.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

I was at a concert years ago by the Reggae legend, Bob Marley.
Nobody played a guitar solo all night.
When the live album came out, there were solos in most of the songs.

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Cheers!
Dave

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Bill Evans - Conversations with Myself ... overdubbed! Who knew?

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

I do believe I was commenting on the concept of 'live' and it's a fairly relative concept to begin with, not whether there was a record company swifty involved in regards to the Allmans Fillmore set.

I really don't care for stuff being spliced, however I definately wouldn't have known if they hadn't mentioned it in the release sheets, which actually put me off.
Kinda ironic don'tcha think?

I really like the Byrds Fillmore '69 CD, however I'd have far preferred it if it had come from one night instead of three.

Back in the 1990s the post-punk indie rock band Husker Du had a re-issue series of their major label albums, including a live album from the late 1980s.
The label chose a live collection set, you know songs cut at various gigs, to get the possible versions, blah-blah.

The drummer actually had a recording that by all accounts was a splendid gig, there was a small gap that he compensated with by using bootlegs and fans tapes from the same gig.
The label rejected the concept outright.
Personally I'd like to choose the character of a gig over a compilation.
Some artists have live greatest hits sets, they even use it in the title, so at least you know where they're coming from, or their label, whatever the case may be.

P Gleespen · From: Toledo, OH USA

The original release of Duke Ellington's "Ellington At Newport" was mostly studio recordings with fake audience noise.

The 1999 re-release includes both the real live stuff AND the "fake" stuff.

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Don't get me started on Kenny G and Louis Armstrong. Here's a small snippet from Pat Metheny's famous web rant on the subject:

Pat Metheny:
"Mot long ago, kenny g put out a recording where he overdubbed himself on top of a 30+ year old louis armstrong record, the track “what a wonderful world”. with this single move, kenny g became one of the few people on earth i can say that i really can't use at all - as a man, for his incredible arrogance to even consider such a thing, and as a musician, for presuming to share the stage with the single most important figure in our music.

this type of musical necrophilia - the technique of overdubbing on the preexisting tracks of already dead performers - was weird when natalie cole did it with her dad on “unforgettable” a few years ago, but it was her dad. when tony bennett did it with billie holiday it was bizarre, but we are talking about two of the greatest singers of the 20th century who were on roughly the same level of artistic accomplishment. when larry coryell presumed to overdub himself on top of a wes montgomery track, i lost a lot of the respect that i ever had for him - and i have to seriously question the fact that i did have respect for someone who could turn out to have have such unbelievably bad taste and be that disrespectful to one of my personal heroes."

Kevin Macneil Brown · From: Montpelier, VT, USA

I was utterly shocked when I first learned that Ernest Tubb's "Live at Cain's Ballroom" was a studio recording with crowd noise added. (and a pretty wild crowd at that.) Then again, I always did wonder where the piano came from...

James Cann · From: Phoenix, AZ

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Waylon and Willie and their "Good Hearted Woman" which sounds as phony as a three-dollar bill.

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