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Topic: Why does Rap/Hip Hop have legs?? |
Jack Francis
From:
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 5:03 am |
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It easy to follow the changes in country music. Roughly about every 10 years or so, from the music of the "Hanks"/ Western swing, to the over produced Patsy era to the "Outlaw, country rock, back to more "Roots, then gradually to something hardly definable as country.
To my untrained ears it seems as though the genre of Rap/Hip Hop has for the past 20 years since it came on the scene, remained the same.
Would that our genre could have had the decency to be more true to it's roots. |
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Chris Lasher
From:
Blacksburg, VA
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 5:55 am
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| I would try asking a rap/hip-hop dedicated listener to pick out differences in Country 20 years ago and now, and see if it doesn't go both ways. I'm sure they could tell you differences in the rap/hip-hop genre over the past 20 years (e.g., "It used to be about social equality; now it's all about the bling bling."). |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 6:34 am
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| 50 years of television overdose has caused permanent brain damage in a huge number of Americans. They are no longer capable of following or understanding music that actually changes keys, because their destroyed attention spans negate the concept of, and appreciation for, "returning to the 'one' chord." However, they still need something to wiggle to, hence rap. Keeping the general populace intellectually bamboozled yet salaciously obsessed is a masterful control strategy. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 7:36 am
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Rap/hip hop has changed and developed quite a bit over the years. Listen to the difference between early Kurtis Blow to NWA, Wu Tang Clan then on up to the Dr. Dre produced stuff. Some very creative and expressive music is going on. It is a much more alive and vibrant form of pop music than most. I have been touring with a mostly acoustic folk/rock/country type band these days and all the guys are way into some hip hop type band called outcast. I haven't checked them out yet but I'll bet dollars to donuts that I'll like it better than the latest piece of crap served up by Toby Keith.
David, I got the chance to watch CMT while I was on the road. Thank goodness there was never anything "salaciously obsessed" about those vids 
------------------
Bob
intonation help
[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 23 November 2004 at 07:37 AM.] |
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Jeremy Steele
From:
Princeton, NJ USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 8:30 am
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Bob, you mean outKast.  |
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 9:06 am
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OutKast has been on SNL at least a couple of times and I believe that they've won an award or so recently (I forget which award, but I think it was somethinkg like a pop music award, or the like rather than on the rap side).
From what I've seen, I would say that they're relatively unique and distinguishable from most other new music of today, but not by a whole lot. They're interesting to watch live. [This message was edited by Tom Olson on 23 November 2004 at 02:04 PM.] |
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Greg Vincent
From:
Folsom, CA USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 2:55 pm
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Interesting thread. It's amazing when you realize that the hip-hop era has lasted twice as long as the big band era. Pretty remarkable, really.
-GV |
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Les Pierce
From:
Shreveport, LA
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 3:01 pm
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It might be because, most of the time, there few musicians in a rap session, mostly loops, or programmed "beats". This must cut down on the creativety of the background music.
Les |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 3:14 pm
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Punk rock has also been around since the '70s, and yet there are clubs and bands and fans out there thinking they are on the cutting edge. What's going on out there? When I was coming up we had the rock'n'roll revolution in the '50s, the British invasion in the early '60s, acid rock in the late '60s, country-rock and metal and disco in the '70s, then New Wave and Punk, then rap and techno - then...?!? Is this the end of musical history?  |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 4:24 pm
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| Makes you wonder what music they'll be playing in 25 years at the cookie & ice cream parties in the old folks homes.... 2 Live Crew vs. the Ramones? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 7:03 pm
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| Rap has changed quite a bit from the stylings of the Sugarhill Gang and Grandmaster Flash of 25 years ago. Rap has even spawned a new style, "Hip-Hop", which has a sort of smoother, non-violent groove. I'm noticing more harmony, as well as more complex rhythm patterns in all rap and hip-hop in the past couple of years. The structure's getting more complex, too, with added sounds and heavy sub notes. In short, it's becoming more "sophisticated" (can I use that term?), not unlike country became smoother and more sophisticated back in the '70s. Even "Gangsta-Rap" seems to be fading a little, recently. |
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Chris Lasher
From:
Blacksburg, VA
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Posted 23 Nov 2004 9:27 pm
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| OutKast is from Atlanta. They're huge here. Believe it or not, Alan Jackson performed "Hey Ya!" live, once, though it escapes me where. |
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Uwe Haegg
From:
Hilleroed, Denmark
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Posted 24 Nov 2004 6:00 am
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Maybe we`ve finally come to the point where
nothing can shock and anything goes.
We`ve heard (C)rap about most anything repulsive you can think of..so it must be really hard to come up with something new in order to "impress" and make an outrage.
(C)rap will go the same way as disco - into oblivion. The sooner the better.
I liked "8 Mile" though. 
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2004 8:06 am
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| A close second on the lame-meter is that sort of decadent pseudo gothic death-sludge where the singer sounds like Godzilla singing thru a blues guitar amp. |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2004 8:59 am
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Well, just to respond to the comment that Rap music uses mostly loops and programmed beats. That's quite untrue. That may be true in the rave/techno world, but not the Rap world. These guys, at least the good ones, are absolutely meticulous about the grooves, the sounds, the arrangements, the depth of pocket, or degree of swing. Much of what you hear are indeed sampled individual sounds, but the rhythm they are played at comes from the hands of a very skilled musician. Often times the beats are played by hand into a device like a MPC2000 or the like. Some beats are quantized, many are left human so that feel is in there. Also, many of the samples are created by the artists to sound a certain way. Much work goes into creating the ultimate kick drum or snare drum sound.
What so many people don't get is that these rhythms have great subtlety in the shape of the pocket, precisely engineered to have maximum impact and "slam". It makes people move and dance hard. It's rhythm music. I consider it a quite advanced art form. Here in St. Louis it's a major hotbed of rap and hip-hop artists getting signed on major labels and gaining huge success. I do most of the local audio mastering work and the Rap music scene keeps me very fed and very busy. It's not my first choice of personal entertainment, but I can tell you from hearing over 200 projects a year, that there is some truly respectable music being made in this genre. It's highly evolved from what it was 20 years ago, worlds more developed than what comes out of Nashville these days, worlds more. I'll also admit that MUCH of the rap today is crap, but that's true in any genre, especially country music. You always have to dig to get at the good stuff. It's not always in your face on TV or radio.
Rap music carries a vibe of angst, but that's the nature of its commentary. It's generally black, urban music and the sound reflects an aspect of the culture and it's cries of oppression, as well as celebration of it's identity. Clearly this voice has been heard and millions are moved by it. It's the largest selling genre of music today. The rhythms of hip-hop have infiltrated almost all forms of popular music. It's the science of dance groove and full body impact. You cant argue with results.
Brad Sarno
Blue Jade Audio Mastering
St. Louis, MO |
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2004 9:39 am
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I can't see how you could miss the differences from year to year, and especially from decade to decade.
Change has come about in part due to the commercial success, and also due to the really rapid advances in technology.
Yeah, there are definitely "loops" on the stuff, but it's written to a level of depth that most instrumental "band" music simply doesn't have the personnel for. I've sat and watched a Rap/R&B guy put together a demo; he was basically composing an orchestral score (I think he had over a hundred tracks of full strings, horns, beats and assorted bass lines weaving in and out of the mix). Really creative guy.
If you listen to the following in any order, the differences become obvious: Sugarhill Gang, Public Enemy, OutKast, Tribe Called Quest, Eminem... they are on different planets from one another. |
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 24 Nov 2004 11:21 am
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| Quote: |
| I can't see how you could miss the differences from year to year, and especially from decade to decade |
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think the question of whether you can make out differents and/or developments or whatever in a certain style of music depends heavily upon how much you listen to that style and how much you enjoy it.
For example, I'll bet that there are more than a few people out there who would swear that today's country music sounds pretty much the same as it ever did.
Of course, those who listen to country music a lot and who enjoy it would argue that point.
On the subject of rap music in general, personally speaking, I don't listen to rap music very often, if at all, because I not only do not like the music, but I also associate it (rightly or wrongly) with uneducated, vile, criminal thugs. Maybe it's just a few that have given the style a bad name to a lot of people. But, it seems like there are a whole lot more rap artists who are involved with violent crime like gunfights, murder, meyhem and the like than artist of other styles. Not only that, but from what little I've seen their treatment and/or characterization of women in rap music and by rap artists in general is revolting. Moreover, there seems to be that there is an unusually high proportion of rap music that has explicit lyrics and which some store won't sell because of it. I simply don't like that sort of thing. 'Course, that's just my 2 cents. But, to each his own.
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2004 12:25 pm
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I hear a big difference between the hip hop of 20 years ago vs today. I think the new stuff is more musical - not to the degree that I would like, but it has some actual elements of music. The early stuff was dreadfully boring from a musical standpoint. Today it's only mildly boring, and they even use musicians on stage sometimes!
If some of those guys would listen to Steve Reich, they could really turn some heads around. JMHO |
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Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
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Posted 24 Nov 2004 12:27 pm
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"but I can tell you from hearing over 200 projects a year, that there is some truly respectable music being made in this genre. It's highly evolved from what it was 20 years ago, worlds more developed than what comes out of Nashville these days, worlds more."
Brad, care to give some examples?
I'm always looking to expand my musical horizons.... |
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