Bigsby/Hipshot B/G Benders

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

Do any of you Tele-pickers have any experience with these units? I've researched both on the web and would like some user input. Both will run close to the same price, all told. I want the bender for my tele because "life" commitments are causing me to lighten my musical load. I am now playing only my 8 string A6 and Telecaster. Some folks might be suprized at how much you can do with a 6th tuning...the bender would be so that I could fake some of the E9 type licks on stuff that just dosen't lay well on the 6th tuning.

Any input would be helpful and even more so, if anybody has one of these units collecting dust...

Tom Jordan

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

I saw a cool bender advertised as an Epiphone product--EZ bender. Works with a stop tailpiece. I don't know if you could retro it to your guitar. Do a google search for EZ bender.

Jesse Harris · From: Ventura, California, USA

I have the hipshot with the B,G, and drop D toggle, I find that they work pretty well given thier price tag, and installation is a snap, my criticisms are as follows. First, the strings that are being bend do not string thru the body, so because if the geometry you have to get your action a little higher so that the string will have some decent pressure on the saddle. Second, I have always found the b bender bar a little uncomfortable, but for the price they are darn good. If I had my dream guitar I would go parsons/white.

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

Jesse,

Thanks for the report...those are the items that matter. The Hipshot does have some nice options but then again, can you work the hip lever while sittin' on a bar stool? With Bigsby, you could operate both levers while sitting. I guess its a matter of preference on how you want to actuate the levers...I did demo a Parsons' that a friend of mine has. It is a great unit, but I didn't care for the "neck-push" motion.

Thanks Jesse,

Tom

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Longwinded reply: I have dabbled with both, owned a Hipshot for several years, before getting a Parsons-White equipped Tele about 12 years ago. The biggest drawback with the palm pedal is that it's always in the way if you want to chicken-pick, palm-mute, etc. A fatal flaw requiring 'way too much adaptation, IMHO.

The Hipshot is much less intrusive on your existing style & technique. Yes, you can play one sitting on a barstool. If you adjust the hip lever so that it point upward & hits you below the ribs, instead of down low, it works just fine. The Hipshot b-lever uses almost the same bender-dance & body English as the Parsons-White, so that that transition would be easy if you went that way later. Yes, you still end up moving the neck (forward rather than downward) to get that lick, but that leaves all 10 fingers to do other stuff at the same time.

The P/W bender has some resistance from a hefty internal return spring, so that it feels more like a PSG, and the notes bend a little more slowly and musically. There is very little resistance on the Hipshot, so you have to use some restraint to avoid a "boing, boing" sound.

I would start with the b-lever only on the Hipshot, and add other levers as needed (if ever needed). The g-lever is like the palm pedal -- in the way -- and I removed mine soon after I bought it. Most of the fundamental bender licks done with the 2nd string bender and manual (sideways) bending on a light-gage 3rd string if necessary.

One set-up problem that you will have to deal with is the shallow break angle of the b-string coming off the Hipshot lever, which allows the string to wallow around quite a bit, even with a grooved saddle. Besides cutting a notch in the backside of your Tele bridgeplate, you may find it very helpful to shim the neck on your guitar (the end closest to the pickup) to increase the back-angle and put a little more down-bearing force on the bridge from all the strings. This is not a difficult or unusual adjustment for a Tele --that's what the removable neck is all about.

Also, check out the Clarence White Forum for more technical info on benders, licks, tab, etc. --- www.clarencewhiteforum.com

I also play an 8-string (but in G6th) and between that and the Tele with a b-bender only, you can find a truckload of usable PSG-sounding licks with only a fraction of the weight and set-up time.

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

I bought the same setup as Jessie several years ago and put it on my G&L tele.

It was cool being able to lower one note while the other was being raised at the same time. There were several combinations of raising/lowering strings and it was fun to play with.

The hip bar became a problem. The choice: move your hips right or pull the guitar forward (in meter) and trying not to get excited so you don't do it too forcefully and bend something; meanwhile pushing up/down the G lever, dancing a little and maybe chewing gum at the same time.

As I had played Al Brunos' guitar a little I decided to go toward his setup. I made custom palm levers to fit the hipshot so I could use my palm to change the notes. It worked OK.

After a time I noticed the G string not returning to pitch when I released the lever. Further checking revealed the strings were grooving the bridge holes and the nut, caused by the string sliding back and forth. What I needed were rollers to guide the string and I decided to pull the hipshot off and buy a psg.

It was the right move but now I'm even more confused, what with pedals and knee lever and 10 strings and this bar you slide up and down the strings.

I should have taken up something simple like nuclear physics.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I've had them all - Joe Glaser's is the best by far!

RR
(I know you won't listen to me, but Ricky Skaggs, Brent Mason and Diamond Rio's Jimmy Olander also use Joe's pull-string.)

PS: I dislike the palm-pedals, as they interfere with your picking hand too much - the Hipshot IS good for the money, I'd agree, but it's still much harder to adapt to than the shoulder-strap benders - that lateral movement affects one's touch on the instrument too much. RR

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 27 August 2003 at 08:40 PM.]

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

The "returning to pitch" issue is easily addressed with a drop of 3-in-1 oil or a squirt of Tri-flow in the nut slot and bridge saddle slot. Or, some guys will use graphite from a lead pencil. Keep this gripe in proportion -- don't forget that most straight-up Tele pickers bend their 2nd and 3rd strings up a whole step all night long, and don't fuss with roller nuts or bridges.

If you have a 3-saddle Tele, the grooved steel saddles or the threaded steel saddles do a much better job of aligning the b-string than the brass saddles with no grooves. On my P/W Tele, I have a grooved steel saddle for the e-b strings and smooth brass saddles for the g-d and a-e pairs, and it works and sounds great...it makes the treble strings more twangy and the bass strings a bit more subdued. BTW, these are new-generation brass saddles that are angled to compensate for string gage, rather than straight. I would also recommend this setup for a Hipshot.

The 6-saddle bridge (better for intonation, worse for tone?) allows you to groove or modify just the b saddle as needed...but I can't give you any specific advice or details.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

One of the best things about Joe Glaser's 'B' Bender is the bridge mechanism - it has a 'rolling' bridge-piece (not unlike a PSG) that reduces string breakage and increases sustain. There is also minimal routing of the guitar's body (unlike the Parsons-White/Green).

I have one on my #1 guitar (a G&L 'Asat' classic) and a regular Telecaster as a spare.

RR

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 28 August 2003 at 08:57 AM.]

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

Thanks for all the replies and opinions guys. These are all very valid points...I noticed that the new Bigsby for the Tele has "swing" arms to move them out of the way when not in use but I can see where they may still interfere with the chikn-pickn...my palm is usually right over the bridge for that.

Roger, do you know if the Glaser bender is available for "self" install or do you have to send your guitar to a shop? I have only found limited info on these. I've spent a bit of time at the Parson site though.

So you guys think that I can get by without the G lever? I currently do manual bends on the B and G but would realy like to beable to get full cord bends..

Tom Jordan

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

For what it's worth, Dave Borissoff, the owner and president of Hipshot, is himself a steel player. He has a red Sho-Bud d-10 and plays in a local band in upstate New York. He also plays banjo and dobro.

Dave is the one who got me started back in '79. He had a Maverick which he loaned me for 3 months till I got my MSA.

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Yes, I think that you will be very pleased at how much you can do with just one bender on the 2nd string. Clarence White, Bob Warford, John Beland, and many more do some amazing stuff with the b-bender only. Jimmy Olander uses two benders, but I'll bet he mastered the b bender first, and learned the g bender later. Then, there is the other extreme. Guitarists like Phil Baugh and Boomer Castleman have used "circus guitars" with three to six benders for special effects, and made some pretty hot music. Too tricky for me.

The Hipshot is a really economical (and un-committed) way to experiment with a b bender or a g bender or both, plus all the string drop levers. These drop levers snap into position, rather than bend slowly, meant for quick re-tuning between songs.

If you really become dependent on a bender, you will crave a P/W, Glaser, or something else that's more solid and internal. I have no gripes with Glaser, but have heard that it's a long, long wait if you send him a guitar for conversion. If you're interested in a P/W a very good alternate source is Stringpull Guitars in Virginia -- www.stringpull.com

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 28 August 2003 at 01:08 PM.]

Larry Robbins · From: Fort Edward, New York

Tom,I used to have an old Hip-Shot and I liked it.It also had a palm pedal for the "G"
string

and a de-tuner for the low "E" string.droped it down to a "D".Not a bad unit but,a lot of stuffto use...and mostly I ended up useing just the "B" string bender.Theese days I use a Higgins Peg Bender
check them out at my buddys' site www.bradivarius.com .Guitar Player mag. had a lot of good things to say about them,worth a click!

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Sho-Bud ProII
"there's been an awful murder, down on music row!"

Tom Jordan · From: Wichita, KS

Larry,

That is pretty interesting...do you hook your guitar strap to the lanyard instead of the guitar strap button? Also, I'm assuming that all that leverage from the peghead dosen't "whammy" the whole neck?

Tom

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Tom

No, Joe does the installation, and it is true that he can take a while!

When I had my first one (a Japanese Tele) I didn't know this, and I simply shipped it to him from NYC - as luck would have it, I had a UK tour to do and I wasn't counting on getting the guitar back at any particular time. It was, however, done by the time I returned.

When I got my G&L 'done' (in Summer '9 Cool

, I pinned him down on dates a little more, and I had it back in two weeks or so. Joe does all sorts of repair work, and is a recognized Nashville 'guitar guru', so he's pretty busy. He's also a steel player, by the way, as well as being a funny guy with a very dry wit.

He used to have (I've not been there in a while) a white '66 Tele fitted with his bender as a sort of 'shop demo' - this was, quite simply, the best Tele I've ever played!!!! I BEGGED him to sell it, but he wouldn't.

He also used to display a warning notice - 'Noodling' was charged at $25, I think. 'Excessive Noodling' merited a $40 fine ('though this may have gone up).

The last time I saw him, he was fitting a 'B' and a 'G' bender to a Parker 'Fly' guitar for Jimmy Olander - THAT was a challenge!

By the way, Joe built Ricky Skaggs' Telecaster (that pink/mauve coloured one on the 'Live In London' album), his 'Mandocasters' (with benders), and the Tele that you see Diamond Rio's Olander playing (with his wife's picture on the p/guard); these have 'Glaser' on the headstock, 'though I believe that he no longer makes complete instruments.

Roger

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 29 August 2003 at 03:03 AM.]

Larry Robbins · From: Fort Edward, New York

Hi Tom,
Yes the lanyard hooks to your strap and,the peg bender is made so that it dose not"whammy" the rest of the neck.These things are WAY-Cool!Brad is a fine craftsman as well as a super picker on just about any inst. there is.I know he'd be glad to give you any info you might needas he is one super nice guy!good luck,let us know how you make out.

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Sho-Bud ProII
"there's been an awful murder, down on music row!"

db · From: Bethlehem, PA 18015 USA

I am always amazed when people try to compare "Strap" & "Hip" bending systems
to Palm Pedals…. It is like comparing apples and oranges.
You just cannot do the same things without Palm Pedals!
You do not have the control, the subtlety of the bend.
You cannot get controled half-step bends.
And most importantly, you do not have the second "G" string bend "control"
to get the true A/B pedal function sound.
And that's what your are after... right?

Hey Tom...
BTW... When the “Swing-Arms” are more than “out of the way”...
You have more than an inch behind the bridge...
More than enough room to get your palm over the bridge for the "chikn-pickn" position.
Check out "What's New" at the website:
www.bigsbypalmpedal.com

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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E&A

[This message was edited by db on 21 November 2004 at 06:06 PM.]

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I too will join this excursion into Benders..

I owned a Fender B Bender with th Parsons Green..it was fine,, heavy, returned to pitch etc..I sold it, should have kept it.

Ok..Then I played a Glaser B only Bender..at a guitar show..world of difference..Loved it..should have bought it !

My bandmate just bought the hipshot G/B ( looks like teeth braces ) for his Tele'..Now we are considering putting it on one of my Tele bodies and building a guitar around it but both Mat and I have come to the conclusion that our style of playing whould change dramtically as the right hand position. It appears as though the present "Comfort" level would be altered.

We are both thinking that a typical Fender Parsons/Green or spring for the Glaser would be the appropriate thing to do.

I know many use the Hipshot and Will Ray is awesome with his..but I'm thinking his style is built around the unit..

When I did play on the Fender years back using the Strap button for the bend became very normal..I'm not sure the palm/hip thing would work for me..

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 22 November 2004 at 03:46 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I guess I'll give my input on B-benders as I've used them for over 30 years and still do. My main guitar at the moment is a Telecaster with a HipShot unit. I also have an Ibanez Artist with a Bigsby Palm Pedal installed. I've owned guitars with a Parsons/White bender but found them limiting. I like the HipShot or Bigsby better for the following reasons. You can use them setting down, no strap required. I do a lot of playing behing my steel guitar and they're a lot better for that. Also, there's no springs to work against so the only resistance is the tension of the string which makes it a lot easier to do subtle half tone bends and vibrato things with the bender. Also, if you do any slide guitar and have a Parsons/White or Glaser type you might as well forget incorporating it into your slide work. With a HipShot or Bigsby you can position the guitar with the string raised and your left hand free to use the slide. Try that with a P/W. It'll work until you have to move your left hand. The Bigsby won't work on a Tele or strat as the levers are too long and protude over the bridge so you can't mute. I see now that db has them with the fold away levers but personally I don't like that. It'd be like having a pedal steel with fold away levers or pedals that you'd have to unfold when needed. I like to have everything available for use anytime I might need or want to use them. I also have one Tele set up with the HipShot Trilogy bridge which gives you 3 pre-set notes per string for various tunings. Have a good 'un...JH

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Barbara Hennerman · From: ** R.I.P. **

*

[This message was edited by Barbara Hennerman on 21 August 2006 at 01:30 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Looks like a nice unit but it'd still require using a strap and there is probably a spring to work against to keep the weight of the guitar from activating the unit. Also if you like the old style Fender 3 piece bridges this wouldn't be for you. The Parson/White, Parsons/Green, HipShot, or Bigsby Palm pedal could still be used with the old type bridges. Also, unlike the HipShot or Bigsby, this unit couldn't be moved to another guitar without a lot of hassle....Have a good 'un..JH

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.