Seven string tuning with high seventh string?

John Bushouse · Posted 10 Dec 2003 7:22 am

Hello all,

After cleaning up my new National 7 string, I put new strings on it. The store I bought the guitar from didn't carry any lap steel strings, so I bought a set of GHS 13-56 strings and bought an extra 22. I tuned the guitar BGDEBGD, low to high.

When I bought the guitar, it had a thin 7th string on it - it wasn't clear what it was originally tuned to as it had gone out of tune, and had probably ben tuned to many other notes since the original owner had it. Strings one through six were tuned GBDGBD.

I wouldn't be too concerned, except the nut slot for the seventh string is cut for a thin guage string, so it sits proud of the other strings. Also, the bridge has slots cut in it for the strings. The string I have on it sits proud here as well, and ends up bumping into the bridge cover. Nice sitar sound, but not what I'm after.

So, I can modify the nut and saddle to accomodate the thicker string. But the way the guitar is set up now has me intrigued:

- What seven string tunings use a HIGHER seventh string?

- Does anyone use this type of tuning?

- Did anyone record with this type of tuning?

The nearest I can figure is that the the seventh string was tuned to the "6" note in a chord. I think Allan Dodge had a high F on this string combined with low G tuning, so his guitar was fDGBGBD.

Any thoughts?

John Kavanagh · From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada * R.I.P.

There's lots of possibilities. A friend of mine who also plays banjo uses a high g on his dobro (gGBdgbd'). For an electric, a high b or d added to a C6th (or some other 9th or M7 added to a 6th tuning) would be more likely. This gives you some added jazzy chords and a melody string to grab with your thumb.

Joaquin Murphy used an 8-string A7/C6 with a high b on the bottom: bcc#egac'e'. You can get at least one of his recordings through the catalogue on this forum.

The thumb string is neat, but I tune my acoustic 8, and one neck of my electric, the same way you do, plus a high e on top: GBdegbd'e'.

[This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 10 December 2003 at 08:28 AM.]

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

My thought is that there are several tunings that use a high G on top, which some guys don't like because they think it is kinda thin and then other's don't think it is too thin at all (Ricky Davis). You could have C6 with a G on top, this is what Jr. Brown uses with a low Bb on the bottom of his 8 stringer.

You could use Don Helms tuning for E6 with the high G# on top and add a low D on the very bottom which would give you a flatted 7th note, thus you would have a E dom7 chord on the bottom. Don Helms played with Hank Williams for the last couple of years of his life and he has a great tab book out which you can find on Dewitt Scott's web page. Don didn't use the D note for a 7th and is said to have pretty much just played the E6 with the upper 6 strings, but it sounds like a good idea to me.

If you want to modify the nut a little, you could use Jerry Byrds C6/A7 7 string tuning, which he had for his 7 string non pedal. JB has alot of great tab and a instruction course that you can find on Dewitt Scott's site. There are alot of guys here on the forum that use this tuning, but personally, I don't think the A7 chord is worth getting rid of a full strum chord on the bottom strings, some guys say it's no problem. The A7 chord doesn't grab me as well as the Dom7 chords you can get by slanting.

Look on the search button and go thru the archives here on the forum to find out more about this subject.

John Bushouse · Posted 10 Dec 2003 9:13 am

Thanks for the reply, Jessie, but I'm wondering about the string closest to me as I'm playing - normally the lowest string in the tuning, but it's obvious to me that the former owner had this string tuned to something higher. Maybe he (or she) had the "6" or "7" of a chord sitting under his thumb.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I have a 7 string Gibson 150. The seventh string (closest to me) is set up with a thin string groove so is definitely designed for a higher toned string, possibly a 6th or 7th.
Erv

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

John, my name is spelled Jesse, not Jessie, that is the girl spelling!

O.K. Putting thin strings on the 7th and 8th bass strings was used by several big name non pedal steel players. This helped in the development of the E9 pedal set up. Andy Volk says Herb Remington came up with it and Speedy had great success with it.

Herb Remington E13 or F#13th (Same thing)
1-E
2-C#
3-G#
4-E
5-Bb (A# for F#13 tuning)
6-F#
7-D# high
8-F# high

Speedy West F#9 (I'll never be free)
Buddy Emmons (Oklahoma Stomp)
1- E 014
2- C# 018
3- G# 020
4- E 030
5- A# 042
6- F# 054
7- D# 015
8- F# 013

Dick McIntire used a cool 6 string tuning in the latter part of his recording career called F#9. It is the same C#m7 tuning Sol Hoopii used but the 5th and 6th strings have be changed from the E and B bass strings to F# and A#, that must be where these other guy's got their 8 string tunings from. This is a favorite tuning of George "Keoki" Lake and myself. We are both devout Dick heads!

Leon McAuliffe had a tuning where the bass 8 string was a high D string I believe. Noel Boggs and Billy Bowman both used this thin string approach on the 7th and 8th strings for some of their tunings. I remember when I first saw this on a steel and said what the heck?!!!

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 10 December 2003 at 01:13 PM.]

John Bushouse · Posted 10 Dec 2003 10:20 pm

Sorry Jesse! I hate it when others spell my name wrong, and I try not to do it to other folks.

Thanks for all of the back history. Since I'm new to lap steel, and 7 strings, I moved my E over to the 7th string. It seems to fit the setup better.

Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

I believe the original concept for 7 string steel was to have the open A tuning(which was then the standard steel tuning) with a high 7th on the lowest string.

It would go like this:

1.E
2.C#
3.A
4.E
5.C#
6.A
7.G(high)

The first 6 strings of the above tuninng is A high bass. A low bass was also quite popular. With the seventh string, it go like this:

1.E
2.C#
3.A
4.E
5.A
6.E
7.G(high)

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Oh yes, and I'd modify the nut to accept a low string. The idea of a high string at the bottom never really caught on very strongly.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I've toyed with the idea of putting a 7th string E on my otherwise standard dobro tuning to get a 6th tone - but instead of putting it in the middle where it would go according to pitch, I'm thinking of putting it at the bottom to keep it from disrupting the core dobro tuning but it would be there if I need it.I currently have that on one neck of my Stringmaster along with a high C as the 8th string and it's a pretty neat tuning.There are a lot of open airy voicings and of course a C triad,6th,minor 7th and some other chords not available on a G dobro tuning.It does lack any tri-tone intervals so it has some limitations compared to Joaquin's or Junior Brown's tunings. -MJ-

John Bushouse · Posted 12 Dec 2003 7:46 pm

Oops - I did mean GBDEGBD.

I've decided to see if I like the sound of C6, so I bought some new strings. I figured with 7 strings I could have the C on the bottom and the the fifth on the top.

Of course, it occurs to me that CEGACEG is the same relational tuning as GBDEGBD, so I suppose I'm in the same spot only a fourth higher.

Ahh, decisions, decisions!

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

John, as I mentioned in another thread, my 7 string NYKR also has a narrow 7th string groove in the nut.

I have several 7 stringers, EH 150, 185, 275, Ultra Tone, Rick, & NYKR. Some have the groove for a heavy string, & some for a lighter guage. I woulsd suppose that they were made to order according to the tuning of the customer. As we can see, there are many possibilities.

John Bushouse · Posted 14 Dec 2003 11:29 am

Howard,

Did you see my post on the figuring out the controls on my National? Do yours work the same way?
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/004624.html

I pulled mine entirely apart to take a look at those pickups - here's some huge pics if you're interested:
http://john.b.on.the.web.home.att.net/parts.htm

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