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Topic: Why are drummers always too loud? |
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 11 Jul 2004 11:12 pm |
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There's a guy on my block who plays guitar in a rock band. I just came home from watching them rehearse. The drummer was louder than all the other guys put together. I saw the singer's lips move, and my neighbor's fingers moving in what looked like lead guitar patterns, but all I could hear was the drums.
It was so loud that my ears were hurting. I had to leave after just one song.  |
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Chris Forbes
From:
Beltsville, MD, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 2:18 am
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Could it be because as a general rule (and yes, there are exceptions to every rule) they're all morons?  |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 2:24 am
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And to take it to the next level..
I still can't understand why sound guys and bands use 4 or 5 mics on a full set on a small gig in a small club ..I never understood this and still don't. By doing this I have always contended that " The reference " for volume is now set..and much higher than it needs to be..
They mic the amps and tell us to keep the stage volume down which I agree with..but is this not a reverse by mic'ing the entire drum set ?
Do we really need cymbols and a snare drum in the sound system ?
Ok, I'm on the plank..
I think not..
This past weekend the sound guy at our gig used 16 mics..( small room ) he mic'ed everything but the front door I think..during the gig he commented to me that it was really loud out front.
Ya think !!
side note:
I play pretty much the same level on Steel all the time..the exact same preamp and post gain settings all the time and normally 1/2 volume pedal..only full pedal at the end of a sustaining chord phrase. If he tells me I'm too loud out front thru the system I usually just say..
"yes I know" .."Can't help ya..you got the fader..not me "...
t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 July 2004 at 03:30 AM.] |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 2:32 am
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| Not always. David Grisiman produced "Back To Back", a record with mandolinists Jethro Burns & Tiny Moore. Jazz great shelly Mann played newspaper sitting on a suitcase using just his brushes. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 3:09 am
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Who's been lucky enough to play with a drummer that you just feel rather than hear?
My favourite? Gerry Conway - British player who did a lot of folk-rock gigs (Fairport Convention, Kate & Anna McGarrigle etc); he played with us for a Sonny Curtis tour in the '90s, and it's my happiest drummer-related experience ever!
One of the saddest? Hearing the Everlys two nights in a row in England - I went to listen to Buddy Emmons, but only heard Larry Londin's kit. Not Larry's fault, I don't think - just sheer lunacy on the part of the sound-crew.
As Tony says, the standard has been set; drum mics in a small club? That's nuts!!!
RR |
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Wayne Brown
From:
Bassano, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 3:15 am
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hey mike ..long time no talk to
if i'm understanding you right you know the answer as well as i. when they were kids beating on pots and pans they just beat the bejeebers out of them and when they were growing up and learning to play drums they did it on there own and never learned the word DYNAMICS.
thanks
wayne |
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 4:32 am
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| I always thought when a song was being played you were supposed to hear the singer and the lyrics. Well, I guess I must have been wrong when it comes to some bands. Too many people do not understand about DYNAMICS as Wayne has stated. It is not about volume but working together as a group of musicians. I have a nephew who likes to do the Van Halen hammer-ons but struggles playing Country Music especially on a slow song. A lot of them want to get loud and fast and it seems that is all they know. I will say in a few years someone is going to make a lot of money in the HEARING AID business. Your ears can only take so much before they get damaged. |
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Bill Llewellyn
From:
San Jose, CA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 6:19 am
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Sound guys like to mic all the drums for the sake of having control over every aspect of the sound. Plus, the tone from close-mic'd drums is much different from an open stage sound, and is more like what one gets in the studio, and I think bands want that tight mic'd studio sound even on stage. Unfortunately that brings the level of everything else up to compete with the amplified drums. One solution is electronic drums, like Rolands V-drums. They sound very good, and can be set to any level. Talk about complete control for the sound guy! 
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Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50? |
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 6:21 am
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I've had the pleasure of playing with some drummers who had a soft touch. That, and they didn't mind using either the broom straw bundles (stage an intervention and give a set to your favorite drummer today!), or the stick bundles or even brushes.
Seems like some guys can't stay tight and play quietly while doing it... only in god of thunder guise can they really keep it in line. That is always a bad sign...
That, and I guess it's the easiest instrument to be too loud on. |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 7:17 am
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Mike P,
I hear you!
Not only do most drummers play too loud, they are mixed way too loud. Most sound engineers are rock guys and are proud of their kick and snare drum mix.
The drummer in my band The Saltines, Pat Bills, uses mostly brushes and does not like his kit mic'ed. Plus he has a minimal kit, no rack tom.
Pat is the best drummer I've worked with because he listens. Rock drummers in classic country bands are a misfit. If you're playing NCS, like Montgomery Gentry, then get a rock guy. Nobody listens anymore.
Pat has gone through the chops phase of his career and now plays what is needed, like a beat.
lucky in MI,
Drew
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Drew's Website
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Glenn Austin
From:
Montreal, Canada
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 8:45 am
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| What a lot of people fail to realize, and especially drummers, is that drums and cymbals are designed to be loud and project sound with very little energy used. So theoretically speaking a drummer should be able to play with other acoustic instruments. Good drummers play from the wrists, not from the elbows or the shoulders. In my last band, our drummer was a female, and she didn't play loud at all, because she didn't have the strength to play like that, which was a refreshing change. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 8:57 am
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It is called framming instead of playing. It is also using a stick when brushes would do much better.
It started with Elvis and the rebellion against ANY thing decent, proper, moral or sensible.
Then came, the running everything wide open. Then the manufacturers of amplifiers seeing the mega bucks from the rebelious punks, started building ever more power monsters.
Since drums are not designded for PU's like a plectrum instrument or an electric keyboard, there is only one other way for the drummer boy to compete in the madness of decibel-hell, and that is to beat the livin' "hell" out of them.
And BEAT they did and continue to do so. Course the edge of the snare which was never really designed to be part of the equation became a likely target for the rebelious "go-alongs" and "frammers".
IMO, George D Hay had the better part of valor when he said "NO" to drums on the stage of the GOO. I only wish they had stuck to his wisdom.
Oh well...
carl |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 9:09 am
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A little while back I was at a club eating dinner. There was supposed to be a small roots rock band, so we decided to stay to see what they sounded like. But there was nothing on the small stage but a chair and a cardboard box and a single mic. As the time for the show to start arrived, a guitar player came in and set up with a small amp. Then a string bass player came in. It was time for them to start but there was nothing else there, so I couldn't figure out how they were going to start any time soon. Then a guy came in, sat down at the chair, started playing brushes on the box top, and sang through the mike. That was the group, and they were damn good.
Their name escapes me, but the drummer-singer told the tale that back in the day he played sessions for Sam Phillips at Sun Records. At his first session Sam kept telling him to play the drums quieter. Then he started taking away pieces of the drum set until he had only a snare and brushes. Then Sam took away the snare and gave him an empty cardboard box to play on. Sam was finally satisfied with the mix. And that's the way this guy played from then on. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 9:23 am
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When I was growing up, there was an ole saying,
"Basses and drums should be felt and not heard"
I like that
carl |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 9:24 am
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I'm current playing in a 7-piece rock band that's often quieter than almost any country band I've played in. The drummer controls the dynamics of a band. Some drummers are musicians, some just make noise.
------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
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Nate LaPointe
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 9:34 am
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I agree, most drummers have no dynamics. The ones that do benefit from close-mic'ing the drums.
My favorite drummer I've ever played with is jazz ledgend Joe LaBarbera. Check out his work with Bill Evans if you wanna know about dynamics! |
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Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 12:24 pm
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Some drummers ARE musicians, but most are not.thats why they are drummers!
And a lot of them cant count to four either!  |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 12:59 pm
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| Thry have to match the vol of the idiot lead guitar player |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 2:12 pm
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Did you look in his ears?? I bet he had ear-plugs in??? Ear plugs to me is why music gets so loud and not the other way around. It starts with the Drummer that puts ear plugs in; than he's loud so the monitors have to be turned up..than they are loud; so the guitar/bass players turn up; now they are loud and goes on from there. I say take the wax out of your ears and if it hurts...then your too loud and now you know the proper volume to play at.
Ricky |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 5:03 pm
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If there is no concensus among the musicians in a group as to what the volume levels should be amongnst themselves, then you really can't blame the loudest person in the band. Has to be a self governing thing going on where the amount of volume for the good of the entire group is respected between all the players. Wonderful when it happens, miserable when it does not.
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Mark Metdker
From:
North Central Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 5:12 pm
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what do you call a guy that hangs out with musicians.....a drummer! Ha!
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 5:29 pm
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| . [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:18 PM.] |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 5:34 pm
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| . [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:18 PM.] |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 5:49 pm
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I totally agree with Ricky...again! Earplugs might protect the wearer from hearing loss, but as a rule they contribute to louder stage volumes (AND pitch problems with singers and fretless instruments IMO).
I guess I'm lucky though, I rarely have to suffer with bad(i.e. loud) drummers anymore for some reason. Lord knows you'd think there'd better be a few sensitive players in an area the size So. Cal! Luckily for me, most of the guys I play with have figured out how to deal with "kick-boom" heavy soundmen by now.
Anyway, I think the loudness domino effect starts as much with electric bass players every bit as much as drummers. |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2004 8:10 pm
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| Maybe it's the town I live in(Los Angeles)or maybe I'm just lucky but I can't remember the last time I played with a problem drummer. I guess there's so many musicians in L.A. that bad ones don't get very far up the totem pole.Of course that doesn't mean the kid bashing away down the block isn't gonna give me a headache - but at least I give him credit for trying to play a real instrument and not rapping along with a drum machine that somebody else programmed. -MJ- |
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