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Topic: Ralph Mooney on Wynn Stewart recordings. |
Toby Rider
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 12:03 pm |
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Can any of y'all tell me a little bit about the steel guitar that Ralph Mooney used on the famous Wynn Stewart recordings?
Thanks!
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Chris Forbes
From:
Beltsville, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 1:12 pm
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| I don't know what he used, but it sounded killer and his playing just knocks my socks off every time I listen to that old stuff again!!!!! |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 1:33 pm
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Toby,
My guess would be a Fender 400 or 1000
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 2:22 pm
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| Fender, D-8, might have been light blue. Also, not easy to play, by today's standards, which gives you an idea of how great he was/is. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 2:39 pm
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Didn't hurt having James Burton there, either...
RR |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 3:40 pm
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I don't think James Burton played on the Wynn Stewart recordings. That was Mooney playing on Fender 400 and 1000.
Some of the six string guitar work was Buck Owens, Joe Maphis, Tommy Collins, Roy Nichols and even Merle Haggard played on some cuts. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 24 Jun 2004 5:42 pm
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Come to think of it, Jason Odd told me that it was Clarence White on some of that stuff.....I was having a senior moment.
RR[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 24 June 2004 at 06:43 PM.] |
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Chris Forbes
From:
Beltsville, MD, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 1:22 am
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| The vast majority of it was Roy Nichols, I believe. |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 3:57 am
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On the vast majority of Wynn's recordings Ralph played a Fender 1000 D-8 with the E9th tuning on the inside neck and an open G on the outside which he rarely used. It was tuned low to high:
C# or Bb..D..E..F#..G#..B..E..G#
Ralph used only one pull on each pedal. He raised his 3rd string B to C#. He raised the 1st and 4th G#'s on separate pedals on either side of his B to C#. He raised the 2nd string E to F# by itself and he lowered the 1st string G# to G. I don't think he used knee levers in the Wynn Stewart days but later on he added a knee lever which raised the 2nd string E to F and lowered the 6th string E to Eb....
I had the pleasure of getting to play guitar with him at a club I was working in SoCal in the late 60's. Bobby Austin (Apt.# 9) brought Ralph to play the show with him and he was playing the Fender. I think it was the light blue one someone mentioned earlier. Have a good 'un, JH
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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.
[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 25 June 2004 at 04:59 AM.] |
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Kenny Dail
From:
Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 4:00 am
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I think Buck Owens was the guitar player on some of Wynn's stuff. I know he recorded the guitar stuff for some of Tommy Collins stuff too. I have heard Ralph's first pedal steel was made from a railroad cross tie and everytime he picked it up to move it, the legs would fall off. Mooney later used a Feder 800.
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kd...and the beat goes on...
[This message was edited by Kenny Dail on 25 June 2004 at 05:02 AM.] |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 4:49 am
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When I first heard Ralph on the old Buck Owens/Wynn Stewart records it stopped me dead in my tracks. What a great sound! Lots of speculation on this thread but Jerry has it exactly right. Moon played that Fender 1000 for years. I believe he didn't switch to a D-10 (BMI?) until the 70's.
You see Fender 1000's on ebay fairly regularly. Most players nowadays prefer a modern guitar with all the bells and whistles, but I think they are wonderful instruments. The 1000 was probably the dominant early pedal steel in the late 50's early 60's until Sho-Bud came along. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 5:38 am
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I can't say for sure, but I believe Jason got the information from a Bear Family compliation set on Wynn Stewart - I'd wrongly assumed (because they did their own Capitol album together) that James and Ralph were an 'item' in the studios back then. The Wynn Stewart track ('....Mr Sandman') was on Capitol, too.
...and it did sound a bit like Burton, too!
RR |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 9:13 am
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Hey Kenny,
I don't ever recall hearing of Ralph using a Fender 800. That was the cable model S-10 which was the companion to the 2000 which was a D-10. Neither model came with knee levers. I remember hearing of that old steel you're talking about that he just lifted up and the legs would drop out of it. I don't believe it was a pedal model though. In the Waylon Jennings era he played ShoBud D-10's almost exclusively. He's currently playing one of Gene Field's GFI steels. Gene is an old LA steel player just like Ralph and they've been friends for 50 years or so... Have a good 'un...JH
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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.
[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 25 June 2004 at 10:15 AM.] |
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Kenny Dail
From:
Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 3:10 pm
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Jerry, wasn't the single 8 string model called a 400 and a double neck 8 string called an 800 and single 10 was 500 and a double neck ten was a 1000? When Jay McDonald toured with Buck he played a double 8 Fender. It was my belief that Ralph only went to 10 strings when he got the Sho~Bud. Of course, I could be wrong.
Tom Bradshw's Steel Guitar magazine that has the interview with Ralph Mooney, Mooney refers to the "Log" saying it never had any cabinet drop or went out of tune and that buddy Emmons and Jimmy Day would always drop in at closing time to watch him tear down because when he picked the steel up the legs would fall off. I probably got some of this wrong also.
Happy Trails,
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kd...and the beat goes on...
[This message was edited by Kenny Dail on 25 June 2004 at 04:15 PM.] |
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Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 25 Jun 2004 8:10 pm
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Wynn's guitarists include:
1954-1961
Ralph Mooney
(yes, guitar, steel when he rejoined in 1960)
Cecil Bays
Dale Norris
Roy Counts
Roy Nichols
(most of the 1961-1965 sessions, not one after from memory)
Roy Staggs
Eddie Drake
1966-1970
Bobby Wayne
Phil Baugh
Clarence White
Bobby George
Dale Noe
Tommy Collins
James Burton
Glenn Keener
Al Bruno
1970s
Glenn Keener (he moved to Nashville)
Billy Sanford
Pete Wade
Jerry Shook
Jimmy Capps
Fred Carter
Chip Young
Dave Kirdby
By the mid 1970s he recorded with a variety of studio and session players, from Nashville to Phoenix, and the main stuff is from 1958-69, his best work for a variety f reasons and a style that did change over that period whist remaining good solid Wynn Stewart.
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Chris Forbes
From:
Beltsville, MD, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2004 8:13 am
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| Jason, what would we do without you!? You're a wealth of fantastic info, thanks. |
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Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 26 Jun 2004 8:22 pm
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Steel's a lot easier though.
Mostly Ralph Mooney through the 1950s to 1969, Jimmie Collins 1966-67 and a few others here and there.
Carl West did some work in the 1950s to 1965, but most of it was unissued ad in most of the 1950s stuff he was with Wynn when Wynn was aiming for more basic single string runs and fills going for a simpler sound.
A lot of the Jackpot era sides from that period have no session dates, but in most cases it's most likey the West Coast Playboys (Cecil Bays and Carl West).
Post 1970 it's the Nashville and Arizona sessions, the least well known of his recordings.
Buck and Wynn rarely went into the studio together, Wynn was mainly on Challenge when Buck was Capitol's guitar slinger of choice.
A lot of the guys you associate with the West Coast sessions; Red Simpson, Merle Haggard, Norm Hamlett, Billy Strange, Tommy Ash, Don Rich, Tom Brumley, Leo LeBlanc, Gene Moles etc had nothing to do with Wynn aside from one-off gigs or package tours, although Hag did play bass for a little while in Wynn's band and did a session or two.
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Carl West
From:
La Habra, CA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 27 Jun 2004 5:43 am
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Jason has it all down. How I'll never know
but he does. Great Jason.
As far as Ralph's guitar, he never played a Fender 400 or 800. He used a 1000 for a while. He never used a Fender 2000 either. But the stories about legs falling off is no joke. He called me one day to sub for him and he told me at the time, "just move my guitar to the back of the stage, but a leg or two may fall off". It did. The first time I ever saw Ralph was at Ray's Ban Box on Vermont Ave. in LA. He was using a L shaped lug wrench for a pedal.
No matter what Ralph played the sound was always the same. What a great player and legend.
Carl West |
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Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 28 Jun 2004 1:22 am
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Hey Carl, thanks for the nice words.
Yeah Mooney, what a tasty player. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2004 4:52 am
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Kenny - Here's the Fender PSG lowdown:
400 - Single eight
1000 - Double eight
800 - Single 10
2000 - Double 10
Mooney continued to play his 1000 for many years after the 10 string guitars became available. According to some liner notes I read somewhere, he only switched to a D-10 when his 1000 finally broke. Not sure what brand he switched to at that time. He most recently plays a GFI. |
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Kenny Dail
From:
Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.
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Posted 28 Jun 2004 9:26 am
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Thanks Tim for setting the record straight. 
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kd...and the beat goes on...
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