Monitoring vocal recordings

Greg Vincent · From: Folsom, CA USA

Hi folks,

How come when I record a vocal and play it back on the near-field studio monitors it will sound fine, but when I get it on a small boombox or small computer speakers I start hearing all these pitch problems that I missed in the studio.

This never seems to be a problem with guitar, bass, steel or other instruments; If a guitar is out of tune, I usually catch it on the good speakers. But small, crappy speakers seem to reveal hidden pitch problems on vocals.

Why is that???

Exasperated in L.A.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Listen again ? have someone else listen ?

Many times when we record in our home studio everything sounds fine..until I listen back maybe a day or two later..Doing some research on this I have been told and also read several articles pertaining to this same phenomena which really isn't magic..it may be fatigue. This may be the point where another set of criticle ears are required.

Do you record, mix and master in the same session ? then burn a CD and listen in the car and hear all sorts of weird stuff ?

Lately when we have tracks which I believe are close I burn a quick reference copy and listen in the car for a few days and actually take notes. I guess the point is if it is off pitch in the car or small boom box..it surely is off pitch in the near fields. I generally listen to all tracks in cans before listening in the near fields
and now only use the near fields for final mixing EQ references.

For vocals I listen basically to the vocal tracks with the bass and maybe some very minimal rhythm guitar or keyboard ( low levels) and a low level drum track. I never send the entire tune out to the monitors for vocal evaluation..too much stuff going on.

I have also come to learn not to mix and master until several days after the last "TRACKS" session. Even at that there is always something I hear which could have (should have ) been "Fixed"...and it is usually a pitch issue with a vocal line..as these are the most difficult issues to deal with when recording, not just at home but in the big boys houses too..

just roll the tape and keep pluggin' away..

Most of us can't hear on pitch anyway !
t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 04 May 2004 at 01:56 PM.]

Greg Vincent · From: Folsom, CA USA

Thanks for the input, Tony.

You mentioned headphones and that brings up another issue. It's weird... headphones are a great way to check certain things, like panning, or rattling drum kits, but in my experience they seem to be really forgiving of vocals. I seem to miss a lot of off-pitch stuff through them. Has that been your experience? -GV

[This message was edited by Greg Vincent on 04 May 2004 at 02:04 PM.]

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Try lowering the overall volume and keep the vocals domonant and anything else way underneath..you really only need a small amount of on pitch music to hear if the vocals are on pitch or not. Also take away any vocal effects that you may have on, reverbs/delays etc...listen dry.

I tend to get ear weary using headphones after a while as well..so when this happens I stop for a while , take a break..walk away and return a bit later..maybe just practice instead of laying down a track.

good luck
t

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

The small crappy speakers accentuate the vocal range, and your near fields try their best to be full range.

Best sugestion: solo the vocals alone for the full track and have a listen

Or with just keys or guitar, but low behind them to check for relative pitch to music.

What Tony said in a smaller package.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 May 2004 at 03:54 PM.]

Miguel e Smith · From: Phoenix, AZ

I'm with Tony and David on the "lowering the volume" thing. Many years ago I was doing some tracking at Young'un in Nashville (Chip Youngs place) and Chip liked to playback at searing levels. It did sound wonderful and it was a very nice room. But, I'd find myself hanging out down the hall just a bit and able to better hear things I wanted to change. To this day, even when I'm monitoring at not-so-loud levels, I'll leave the door open and walk down the hall. Gives me a different perspective. Of course, if you sit in front of playbacks all day, I'd certainly recommend giving your ears a break.

Mike

[This message was edited by Miguel e Smith on 04 May 2004 at 08:17 PM.]

Billy Woo · From: Los Angeles, CA, USA

I agree with David Donald, I always "Solo" the vocal(s) and check from beginning to end all vocal tracks as I layer Lead and back-up harmonies all the time while panning and varying effects but if you can solo it then green light it after checking it will save alot of hassles at mix-down. How ya doin Greg?

Bronco Billy

Greg Vincent · From: Folsom, CA USA

Wow that's brutal --soloing the vocal??? Man... singers HATE that! But I guess that's the truest way to find out whether a take is right on, huh?

Hey there Billy wazzup? Thanks for the input!

-GV

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Tape is cruel...
but it is the best teacher.
If the singer IS GOOD,
then there is no problem soloing the vocal.

For me the best singers can sing solo and pull it off great.

My comment above was about dipping the backing tracks down while listening mostly to the vocal. To make sure it is pitch to the instruments not just itself.
I have recorded singers who are spot on with their parts... because of perfect pitch...
but can sing in tune with a slightly off true FOR THEM, pitched band.

But I am in full agreement with mixing and monitoring at SEVERAL different levels.

Multiple reasons.
1 ear fatigue is a real thing, and it starts after 6 hours of listening, sooner for very loud sessions. IMHO

2 low levels give a very different acoustic space, and simulate may real world listening environments, so things do sound different.

3 going down the hall also gives a more real world perspective.

4 the end result of loud monitoring is that
after ear fatigue, comes short and then long term hearing loss.

But also during a session you get enured or numb to dynamic changes and don't hear them till the next day.

But at a very low volume you might notice... hey X is missing now etc.

5 Also loud levels bring on overall bodily fatigue,
so you react slower at the end of the sessions too.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 13 May 2004 at 02:52 PM.]

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