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Topic: New Country...complicated songs? |
Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
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Posted 29 Jan 2004 2:54 pm |
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I've recently sat in with a band that just does "New Country" and found most of those songs are not exactly the easiest ones to learn......!
I mean, I've been playing for over 25 years but was completely lost on trying to "wing it" through some of these songs I hadn't heard before.
Here's one....."Cover Me" by Jody Messina.
It starts in Bb, modulates to C# then modulates agin to Eb....and the chords go like this I, IIIm, VIm, IV, V, VI then it modulates!
Trying another one called "I'm Moving On" by Rascal Flats...it's a killer, too.
Anyone else find it hard to pick this stuff up? |
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Greg Vincent
From:
Folsom, CA USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2004 3:11 pm
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| Maybe because it's actually pop music? |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 Jan 2004 3:31 pm
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Yes it is tough....especially if one hasn't heard the song and you don't have a chart. One of the reasons I sit and play along with this stuff on the stereo is to keep up.
Even if you don't like it, it'll help ones chops and familiarize one with his fretboard more than one realizes.
I hear lots of guys complaining about the new music and how it's not country and I agree to some extent but boys and girls if you're gonna play out for money, you're gonna have to play it so you might as well get used to it and learn it. Sorry for the rambling, Tony. |
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Merle Record
From:
Oxford, Maine, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2004 3:43 pm
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| I hear ya Tony. So many songs have been written that at least in part followed the circle of fiths that it feels natural. As I'm listening to music I quite often, for practice, make a mental chord chart. If the progression moves too far from the circle of fiths I may find myself getting temporarily lost. I don't think this is isolated to new country though. Old Beatles songs will keep me on my toes trying to get it the first time through. Also I can remember listening to some of Tammy Wynetts songs that got me twisted up a little. The killer for me is when I can't hear the bass real well to get the root. Merle |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 29 Jan 2004 5:33 pm
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I like lots of chords and chord changes, but only when they enhance the song. Some writers, though, will try and "fit" as many changes as they can in a song to hide the fact that the song's words or melody don't have what it takes to stand on their own.
Clutter is clutter, in my book. |
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Walter Stettner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 30 Jan 2004 9:49 am
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Donny, you are exactly right, IMO!
To me, a song goes right into the ear if it has a melody line you can follow. That does not necessarliy mean that it has to be a simple three cord song, sometimes also a "complicated" song can have a nice chord flow and melody line. Even one of those simple three chord songs might get a little different touch by adding a diminished or augmented chord sometimes.
On the other hand, some of the newer songs sound like they were created on a drawing board, using all the details of musical theory the composer knows about.
I had a guitar player in my band who wrote an instrumental that sounded very artifical and used every chord you can think about. It wasn't too popular in our band, not because it was tough to play, mostly because we couldn't feel any musical heart in it.
Kind regards, Walter
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2004 10:40 am
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Agreed. Take a song like Roy Orbison's "Pretty Woman". It's a complex progression even by today's standards, but it's worth learning because it resonates with the audience. There's a lot of equally complex music on the radio that leaves you empty after you've gone to the effort of learning it. You're left feeling, like, is that all there is?
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2004 11:47 am
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Mega dittos Donny and b0b. 
carl |
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Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
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Posted 30 Jan 2004 2:16 pm
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The thing that struck me trying to play these songs was that they did, indeed, sound like they were composed on or by some type of music theory program.
I always prided (is that a word?) myself on the ability to "hear" a song and pick it up(and the licks in it) right away, but this newer stuff just doesn't work that way.
The chords don't anticipate one another, they just go on and on.....!
Not a criticism, just an observation (or a reality check, I guess) |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 30 Jan 2004 10:10 pm
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Whew! I thought I was the only one who couldn't anticipate and follow some of that stuff.  |
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Rainer Hackstaette
From:
Bohmte, Germany
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Posted 31 Jan 2004 4:19 am
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Quite a few of the "old classics" of country, rock or pop music of the last 40 years have pretty unusual chord progressions and/or modulations that would be hard to anticipate and follow through if you had never heard the song before:
Eastbound And Down
Rocky Top
Proud Mary
Smoke On The Water
I agree that the chord changes in modern country music are often more complex than in the older classics. "Fakin' it" won't get you far on many of them.
What I like about modern country music is that the double or secondary dominant is not as omnipresent as in the older material. It's a harmonic cliché that gets old very fast. I'd rather be surprised. 
Rainer
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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, Sho~Bud Pro-I 3+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 31 Jan 2004 6:09 am
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| I have one small question? Even though Proud Mary has a different intro, we will still recognize it twenty years from now, just like 30 years before this. When we hear "Im Movin On", will the intro tip us off to the tune? Will we even remember who Rascal Flatts is in twenty years? |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 31 Jan 2004 6:23 am
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[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 06 December 2004 at 01:30 AM.] |
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Walter Stettner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 31 Jan 2004 6:58 am
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Fred,
You are right! Open mike with new country? Funny thought!
I heard Janie Fricke in an interview one time and she said if she is supposed to play with a house band she will stick to the "simple" songs (not meant to sound negative) because it doesn't really work out to play the modern material without any rehearsing.
Kind Regards, Walter
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 31 Jan 2004 9:54 am
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I was primed to denigrate the complicated chords of the "new" country as not being all that complicated....until I remembered the three weeks of rehearsals that I participated in before the summer season started at the theater where I recently worked for three years. Maybe those changes are more complicated than the predictable changes that we are used to!
www.genejones.com |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 31 Jan 2004 10:55 am
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What Gene said..
Going through "What was I thinkin'", "Brokenheartsville" and a couple others, I'd have to say that they are not unlike "Lost in the Feeling", "Shameless", or a dozen others. If you
Incidentally, I've played in plenty of bands that turned "Statue of a Fool" "Crazy" and other songs into "Three Chorders".
Not good or band.. they just seem to do it.
EJL |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 31 Jan 2004 11:37 am
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One thing I've never been accused of is diminishing complicated chord arrangements to "three chord" facsimilies....on the other hand, I have been accused of re-writing songs by adding "passing or supplemental" chords when I thought it would be an improvement.
www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 31 January 2004 at 11:38 AM.] |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 31 Jan 2004 2:44 pm
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One of the problems I've had is coordinating passing chords with other band members.
I have a couple "fitzall" chords I throw in.
The two that really chap my ass are "Happy Birthday" where the second IV chord is supposed to be a IVm. The other one is Auld Lang Syne, where I'm ALWAYS writing words and chords out during the 10 o'clock break on Dec 31.....
Some of those "old'uns" are the best for 'unpredictable' changes to "younger" players. Then there was the old Bob Wills' "dropping a measure" or a beat to make a pretty complex song.
Two of my more recent faves have been "Angel Eyes" by Eric Clapton, and "Cross my Heart" by G Straight.
I'm just wondering how many "pipe mice" I'm gonna have in the old Panhead this spring.....
EJL
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Don Walters
From:
Saskatchewan Canada
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Posted 31 Jan 2004 3:27 pm
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"Im Movin On"
It's been 53 years and I still remember the fiddle intro, as I'm sure a lot of you on here do too!
And I ain't talkin' Rascal Flats ... wherever that is!
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Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
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Posted 9 Feb 2004 9:18 am
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I guess what I was trying to convey is that good or bad, the new stuff is a LOT more than three-chord songs.
As such, I find it represents a real challenge to not only learn the songs but to come up with something meaningful to play in them.
It's quite a different mindset when you can't just lay back and improvise around standard intros, turnarounds and chord changes and have to actually t-h-i-n-k.
It hurts! |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2004 2:25 pm
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It seems like the new "girl" songs are WAY more complex than the new guy songs. All the Faith Hill & Shania songs that I had to learn a couple years ago just to stay gigging I've already long forgotten. Empty calorie music I tell ya. Makes me want even give less of a s*** than I already do.
I love lots & lots of chords when it really means something, (like some jazz) but IMHO Country music is all about being simple and "coverable" by every level of player. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 10 Feb 2004 11:35 am
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Somewhat as Gene said , Country music is growing up playing more complicated chords than the old days.
We used to play the complicated chords in the old days, but on old pop music.
When I played a country tune then, lots of times it was only tonic and dom 7th. Not even a 4 chord. If I played anyting else like a aug 11th or maj7th chord, Minor or Diminished,the band thought I was playing "out of tune".
When I did work in a country band,I didnt dare play any pop chords if wanted to keep my job.
So, I played mostly jobs that called for the more modern sound of that day.Big bands, Alvino Rey stuff,pop,etc....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 10 Feb 2004 12:41 pm
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Al my friend.....somewhere along the way, music has been compromised.....it should be the same whereever it is, but it has been categorized to mean different things in different venues...i.e., some venues are supposed to play songs using certain chord progressions, and others should play others....I don't understand it, except that.... some of it sounds "bad" and some of it "good"! Does a venue have to be played "down" to be accepted?
www.genejones.com |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 10 Feb 2004 2:07 pm
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| Well there's complicated and there's COMPLICATED. Ever try to negotiate "Joy Spring" or "Giant Steps"? |
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Andy Greatrix
From:
Edmonton Alberta
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Posted 10 Feb 2004 2:38 pm
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I spent years just trying to get the right feel when I play a Ray Price shuffle.
(because I care) |
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