OK!!, WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE!!" in your band.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Some times you wonder who IS in charge. You might see a well organized band that sounds great and everyone looks like life long friends, then you see a band that seems to struggle with all they try to do, and it sounds like it, too. How does your band work? What works the best, or what doesn't work so good(past experiences?). You want good gigs, so who gets them? You want to pick with GOOD pickers, who organizes things? Who is responsible for "fixin' problems"? Who MAKES IT HAPPEN in your band? What makes the "perfect" situation in your way of thinking?

[This message was edited by James Morehead on 28 November 2003 at 04:14 PM.]

Tom Callahan · From: Dunlap, Tennessee, USA

As in all other facets of my life the person in charge is MY WIFE> She told me I could say that.

[This message was edited by Tom Callahan on 28 November 2003 at 06:10 PM.]

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Tom, You really know she's in charge when she reads you the "Miranda Rights"! HA!

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

We run a democracy. Everything of importance is put up to a vote. The majority wins, unless personal responsibility circumstances bear on the situation. The lead singer is a program director for a local T.V. station and books the band and keeps everyone informed. We have no shortage of work because we are highly organized and have high quality players who understand the meaning of dress, showmanship, and organization. I am fortunate.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 28 November 2003 at 09:55 PM.]

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

In an odd numbered group it's the person that controls the "swing vote".

Even numbered bands require more subtley.

Ususally it's only ascertainable in retrospect. One clue is who leaves just before they fall apart..

Almost never the "Bandleader" oddly enough..

Sometimes it's The Devil Himself it seems.

EJL

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

If you're playing for fun or as a hobby, then you all can have an equal vote in what goes on. But if you're doing it primarily for money, it's a business, and you need someone to take charge and run it, like any other business.

IMHO, if the "bandleader" ain't capable of runnin' things, you need another bandleader.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Not me.

The third thing I say to a prospective band is don't ever ask me about the set list and I don't go to band meetings. Life is too short for that nonsense.

Bob

Oh yea, the first 2 things are when/where is the gig and whats the money like.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Interesting comments!! Sounds like you have a super deal cookin', Kevin. From what I gather from your post, the hard work and being tightly organized is really paying off for you and your band. Sounds like everyone is on the same page concerning positive attitudes-- Way cool!! Eric, quote:"In an odd numbered group it's the person that controls the swing vote" I've seen it controled buy "he who swings the biggest guitar"!! Those bands didn't last too long. Donny H.--- Good point. People get a little more serious when making money is involved. Bob H.---sounds like you like to cut through the chase and just get with it!! Thanx for all of your interesting comments. My band? We are casual about many things. We are still putting our "A" team together. We play a local opry for the fun of it---very nonpressure. The guys who show up regular and are there for the sake of the song and the sake of the audience are the ones invited to "hook up". The guys who like to "dominate" and hog the "spot light", don't get too far with us. Gotta be a team player. Our first goal is do the songs justice, our second is entertain our audience, after we can handle the songs respecable. We really try to provide young folks a nice place to come and do country music, and get experience. We will evolve with time, for the good.

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

Whomever gets the jobs,collects the money,pays the band,builds a rather large phone bill,gets less than everyone else. then he puts up with all the owners BS.Makes sure everyone knows what time to get back on stage (some never know the difference between a break and a vacation)Explains why the band doesn't get free drinks but will get a raise when business picks up.(Owners words) Last but certainly not least,after all night with his girlfriend, he can get home before his wife wakes up.. .He da man

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@^@

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Here's a better "Answer" all IMHO:

Sorry it can't be put into "50 words". Deal with it..

A Band Leader should read Machiavalli on a regular basis. It's a good insight on "what makes people tick". They should also have a good background in dog training and behavior. Not because people are like "dogs", but it gives good insights into agression and loyalty.

Now. That said, the worst thing they can do is impress apon the band, their personal financial "miseries" and the worst way they can do this is by asking people to "hold their checks until the band check clears the bank". Also their "bills" booking problems, as in "double booking by reason of lack of calling ahead" should be made a "group concern" except as a last resort. Not to mention not controlling one's "drinking" or impressing the band with "the pressure" thereby.

Here's why: In this respect human behavior mimics canine behavior" people have a
tendency to "pile on" a "leader" that exhibits the weaknesses I noted. The topic of conversation when they're not around will invariably be the "flakiness" of "the bandleader". Sorry it is that way, it just is. It covers up their own inadequacies.

Band expenses must be agreed apon as to "the split" by the band leader IN ADVANCE with each and every member. I'm not going to argue about it, but MOST of the "expenses" such as PA, Advertising, Phone calls (expecially in the $.05/min phone card era) Band Equipment Transportation, are The Bandleader's. As well "fees for performing", demo recording cost, travel for "showcases" and "up front" monies if required for lodging. This is the "best case" and bestows the least questioned "Authority" of The Bandleader.

(Additionally not being "the last person on the bandstand after break" is a good plus, as well as not being the only person in tennis shoes or boots that look like the've been shined with a brick and a hershey bar.)

I know this sound harsh. Especially for "Communists". A lot of Bandleaders mistake major "Control of a Communal System" for being a Leader of Men ( or....). Especially when this is done by reason of ownership of a PA, OR a mere "name on the contract". I know this seems unfair. Indeed little in Life is fair.

Less unfair possibly when considering it is only done when these "assets" are being paid for by band members. It becomes an obvious "control issue" and further fodder for "band conversation" again drawing attention from individual inadequacies.

All that digested, an underlying princple is that when it's all said and done, "The Band". Its future opportunities, contracts, reputations, tax write offs, etc belong not at all to the individual members, and soley to the bandleader.

The Bandleader, is like the "Trail Boss". "Farmer" or "Capitan". He or She MUST realize that they cannot merely defray the "bad" and claim the "good".

To do otherwise will guarantee the learning of some hard lessons in human nature, business ethics.

Following the "hillbilly guidelines" I have set out will point a potential "Bandleader" in a direction of being able to control Their Band.

Hiring and firing can and should be done, as well as performance guidelines can be set down EXCLUSIVELY in direct porportion to the acceptance of "The Liabilities".

Involvement of "communalism" as a convenience for a "Bandleader" is a definite loss of control.

Depending on the trust and loyalty of individual members, gained ONLY by straightforward means, and demonstration of integrity, things can indeed be made "more flexible".

Considering the wide array of "Management Situations", as I said, if there IS a "core group" often most succesfully a "Tribunal", then it MUST remain SOLID, OR a replacement of the "Core member" must be done immediately by the other two. This in any band numbering more than three people. Otherwise all of a sudden it's an "unpredictable democracy" which is arguably as bad as a "shabby communism".

Many things go into the forming of a "Core Group". Many tendencies need constant attention. When members get fired, there are usually lingering resentments, and floating "bad karma" that needs to be cleared up between "core members". Romantic involvement unless a "group thing" ( yukk..) serves to suddenly swerve the "odd man or woman" into looking for a new "majority". I've avoided it where at all possible. (and quite successfully for some unknown reason given my good looks

).

One thing I learned in the Military was that Tribunals Work. Quadrunals Don't. That's why you never hear the word.

The End Result, is that as a semi successful "Non Band Leader" sideman of more than a hundred bands in my quarter century (save my ONE dabbling in "it" in the early 80s) is that I can say " I don't know why they 'failed' I did what I could do", smiling and shrugging innocently...

With the Exception of Colin Raye, NONE of the bandleaders I have "worked around" have survived, literally OR professionally in the last 24 years. Most of them didn't because of running "afoul" of the "guidelines" I've mused over.

Colin would ba a good person to ask about some of these things from "The Serious". At this point, he still has "his assests" and "liabilities". That never changes. Balancing them is the trick. Ask him.

These were some of my more serious thoughts on the subject.

It is a complicated one.

Those that ARE or have been successful bandleaders know that a lot of these things aren't just "idle musings". ET, Buck, Merle, DAC, and others have done it. Others like Glen Campbell have started on one path and moved to another with varying degrees of success..

It mainly requires a person to be a "Leader" rather than a "Controller".

Also being a Good Musician is a plus.

Simple enough.

EJL

©2003

[This message was edited by Eric West on 01 December 2003 at 03:30 PM.]

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

I made one shot at running my own band and quickly found out why the leader gets "double scale"....with all the headaches of the job, triple-scale wouldn't be enough for me to do it again.

The very first night the trumpet player was an hour late, which blew all the rehearsed parts and riffs. I didn't buy his excuse and fired him before he got on the bandstand....he was shocked and protested that "he was the best trumpet man in town". I agreed that he was, but even Harry James wouldn't be of any value to the band if he wasn't there. I could go on with many more examples but will just say..never again.

After that experience, I have only wanted to know and be responsible for three things,

When is the Job?,
How much will it pay?,
and what do I need to wear?

I could care less how much more the bandleader makes than me....he deserves it!

www.genejones.com

Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

The steel player

Our band works like a team,there are 6 of us plus sound.The band works good together (better than some 4pec. I have worked,with) It's more like fun. No shortage of jobs,playing a mix of country. Keven I and the Willow Creek will be playing at the Westfield Moose Sat. Dec.13 If you are not playing ,it would be nice if you could make it,I know you have played there. Most of our gigs are in Pa. The new smoking law ,is hurting some places. Our band ages range from 25 to 64,a lot of input. We all take the time to help each other. Joe

[This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 01 December 2003 at 05:34 PM.]

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Joe, I'll see you at the Westfield Moose on the 13th. It will be a pleasure to see you play. We just happen to be off that weekend. Please drop me an email the day before to remind me.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 01 December 2003 at 07:59 PM.]

Smiley Roberts · From: Hendersonville,Tn. 37075

A man walks into a Music City Pet Store looking to buy a monkey. The store owner points towards three identical looking monkeys in politically correct, animal-friendly natural mini-habitats.

"The one on the left costs $500," says the store owner.

"Why so much?" asks the customer.

"Because it can write and arrange for small combos and groups up to 16 pieces," answers the store owner.

The customer inquires about the next monkey and is told, "That one costs $1500. It knows Jazz and Classical music. He can improvise or play technically difficult solos."

The startled man then asks about the third monkey. "That one costs $3,000," answers the store owner.

"3,000 dollars!!" exclaims the man. "What can that one do?"

To which the owner replies,"To be honest, I've never seen it do a single thing, but it calls itself a Band Leader."

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  ~ ~


  ©¿©  It don't mean a thang,   


  mm   if it ain't got that twang.


       www.ntsga.com

John Floyd · From: R.I.P.

Sounds Like you've been there Casey.

The answer to the question? Me

Its not a democracy!

Its a business !

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[This message was edited by John Floyd on 02 December 2003 at 03:49 AM.]

Charles French · From: Ms.

A band, a leader. Kinda makes my stomach upset. The last band I put together I was the leader for a day. I called up some guys and said I'm wanting to put something together and we'll be doing country before country was cool music and swing. So we got together and it was really sounding good until the bass players hippie chic girlfriend got drunk and they got in a fight and she kicked the front window out of his car and jumped out as he was driving out the driveway at about 45 miles per hour.

So when it comes to bands I'm kinda like the girl who asked me was I married? To which I replied "Why do I need a wife, when the man next door's got one" not that I need a band, I just like that saying. (irrelevent)

Anyway to make a long story longer, If I can't be the leader I don't wanna play. This is why I sit on my back porch and pick. Which is fine with me cause I've done my time in the bars with drunks, idiots and REQUEST!

thank you very much, cf

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Often the band leader is the most obstinant.

Or the most passive aggresive, but rarely the most qualified. If they don't learn it or don't start doing it, "it don't git din".
They are usually the least qualified for the job, but say " I don't want to be the leader."
Yet it don't happen if they aren't into it.

Or it's the one "with the vision". A clear driving force in a direction... that changes with the wind, often also the most obstinant.

It can be the founder, just because they are the one who never leaves,
so every one else is a newcomer.

I feel lucky in the present band, there is no leader, but there is a main guitarist, who listens to everybody and does a lot of the telephone calling. He is the most stylistically correct and is the founder, but isn't annointed leader. I am sort of a founder, because I played with him in an earlier version. But he found the other 2, and I came in a bit later, because I wasn't available at the time.

The other guys go and get gigs and deal with promo and paperwork too. Everybody listens and tries arrangment suggestions from all others.

For a change I don't have to do more than make the recordings and hand out master cd's. I don't even have to do cd copying.

Things run smoothly, even as an even number group, and eveybody seems quite happy and the band gets better and better, and more work arives.
They even regualrly call a tune where I play the head on upright bass!
Vat's not to like!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 December 2003 at 01:38 AM.]

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Charles' quote: "Why do I need a wife, when the man next door's got one"

Reminds me of one of Faron's stage jokes: "I had a wife once...but her husband came and got her"

www.genejones.com