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Topic: CD Review -- Shania Twain's "UP!" |
Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 26 Nov 2002 1:50 pm |
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| Not to get too far from the point, but, remember when the concept of the "cross-over artist" was new? Used to be that to be a country star you just had to sound good to people who liked country music (of course a lot of hard work and a little luck probably didn't hurt). Now, to be a country star, seems like you have to make the most amount of money in music sales, concert appearances, etc. etc. In other words, to be a present day country star you pretty much have to be "marketable" to the group consisting of anyone with twenty dollars in their pocket, the majority of whom never heard of the artists most of us would consider real "country." [This message was edited by Tom Olson on 26 November 2002 at 01:53 PM.] |
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Bob Shilling
From:
Berkeley, CA, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2002 10:58 am
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| Quote: |
| Not to get too far from the point, but, remember when the concept of the "cross-over artist" was new? |
Probably before my time. I'm only 61. But I certainly remember a lot of cross-overs from the '50s. Marty Robbins and Conway Twitty come most immediately to mind. And I think those of us who still appreciate "real country music" would not say those two weren't country musicians. Elvis certainly crossed over, and stayed crossed over. Hank was so innovative that many people consider him to be one of the first rockers, but I don't think I'd really call him a cross-over.
There were many others in the '50s -- Bobby Helms, Brenda Lee, etc -- too numerous to really mention. It's been going on for a looonnnggg time.
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Bob Shilling, Berkeley, CA--MSA S10, "Classic"
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 27 Nov 2002 1:38 pm
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So that's why ShoBud followed along and made the Crossover ? 
Long Live Elvis and Hank !
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Steel what?
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2002 4:47 pm
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| Jerry Lee Lewis crossed over from Rock to Country, as did Conway. |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 27 Nov 2002 6:04 pm
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| The difference is that Conway was ALWAYS country and performed country all of his life long before he ever did any rock......he then successfully did rock for a time during the era when there was no country being done.......then went back to country after it started to come back, and in fact deserves much of the credit for the resurgence of country music. http://www.genejones.com/conway.htm [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 27 November 2002 at 06:18 PM.] |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2002 7:22 pm
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| Gene, that's what I love about the Forum, we get to meet you guys--chas |
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 27 Nov 2002 9:55 pm
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Bill S. -- I agree, I guess one could say that there have been cross-over artists for quite a few years (by the way, if you're really 61 I would have guessed that you would have had memories which pre-dated the late 50's  ). I guess the meaning of any particular term is somewhat subjective, especially a "coined" term like "cross-over artist."
I guess I was thinking that "cross-over" applied more to an artist who tries to appeal to fans of more than one type of music as opposed to an artist who switches from one type of music to another. Then, I looked up the definition of "cross-over" in my Webster's and one of the definitions is, "a modification of a musical style to appeal to a larger audience." I guess I would agree with that definition.
Although I could be wrong, I think the case with most of the artists you mention is that one or more of their records may have happened to appeal to both rock fans and/or country fans either simultaneously, or at separate times.
Like I say, I could be wrong, but I don't think most of those early artist purposely tried to modify their style in order to appeal to a larger or broader audience, in the sense of Webster's definition of "cross-over." I think it was probably more like they played and/or sang what they wanted to, and it just happened to fit into one category and/or another (that is, they didn't purposely try to change their music so that they would appeal to country AND rock/pop fans).
(B.T.W., I don't remember saying that any of those artists you mention were not country. In fact, I don't remember even saying that any cross-over artist is not country)
Anyway, to make a short story long -- my point was that today's "country" fits Mr. Webster's definition of "cross-over" artist because it seems like the artists are modifying the "traditional" country musical style in order to appeal to a larger audience. Namely, it seems to me that the bigname "country" music being performed today is specifically "designed" or "tailored" or "intended" (whatever you want to say) to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. The reason for this, it seems to me, is to maximize the amount of moola ($$) that can be made by the music. The reason being, of course, that if the music appeals to more people, you can make more moola with it. That was my point. <[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 27 November 2002 at 10:10 PM.] |
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John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 28 Nov 2002 10:57 am
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I think one of the first "crossover" artists was Louis Armstrong.
-John |
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Robbie Bossert
From:
WESCOSVILLE,PA,U.S.A.
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Posted 28 Nov 2002 12:23 pm
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Crap! Pure Crap!
Robbie |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 29 Nov 2002 2:39 am
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And all this time I thought a Crossover was an old Sho-Bud or a new Williams!
Like her or not..she took full control of her own destiny. She obviously knows that it isn't all about singing a song..or two..A career of longevity will require more than that..just look at the history thats in the books. I'm not a big fan..perhaps a small fan.. but I do think that anyone that can rise to the occassion these days , regardless of the venue , is worth some praise..even minimal. Maybe those artists that are struggling should re-visit the way they are doing it..maybe they should take a risk..The "Chicks" are another good example, they recorded and produced their own CD for something like $200 K . They took the risk. All the income will be theirs. The 200M the record company's have made on them in the past has come to an end. It was a good move.
Maybe they are looking at "Shania" as being a business rather than an act. Maybe if more do it, the record company execs can stop dictating "No Steel Guitar" ...just a thought.
tp |
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Craig Stock
From:
Westfield, NJ USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2002 1:07 pm
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The funny thing is how everyone is always complaining that country music doesn't get the exposure it deserves and then along comes someone who brings it to the world in a big way with a searing steel guitar on a video that is seen nonstop everywhere. Granted, it may not be what we all grew up listening to, but we aren't driving model T's today either. Me for one would love to own a '32 Highboy, but also I like my Volvo Cross Country.
As I write this I am listening to a CD that Chuck Lettes sent me today and he is playing an amazing rendition of Santana's 'Black Magic Woman', as well as having heard Jerry Brightman's new CD, i believe that they are furthering the scope of pedal steel as well as remembering the past.
I drive around and see young kids listening to Hip Hop and Rap, and then when my nearby neighbor Randolph comes out with his style of music on Pedal Steel, I have hope.
My five year old daughter loves the new Shania CD as well as the Dixie Chicks lastest outing and she now watches CMT always and in fact she just calls it the 'Music Channel' she knows no labels, but has good taste in music, she doesn't like Travis Tritt, me neither, but she is being drawn into some good stuff. She also likes Allison Moorer's new CD which is very good. My point is that Shania is bringing country to an audience that never would have heard it before and maybe they may like the Green CD better than the Red one.
Sorry for rambling, but this is the way I feel.
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Regards, Craig
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David Pennybaker
From:
Conroe, TX USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2002 2:32 pm
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Interesting quote in that article by Chet, Greg.
"Traditionally, country songs draw from personal experience, transforming the personal into the universal. Shania, like most pop writers, is attempting to do the reverse. She's trying to convert universal sentiments (I'm strong, life can be unfair, things will be all right, love is everywhere) into personal experience."
[This message was edited by David Pennybaker on 06 December 2002 at 02:32 PM.] |
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David Pennybaker
From:
Conroe, TX USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2002 2:34 pm
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| She also likes Allison Moorer's new CD |
She has a NEW one?
I guess I musta missed that on the radio.
I'll have to check Amazon, I guess. |
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Craig Stock
From:
Westfield, NJ USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2002 3:42 pm
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Yes David it's fairly recent, it's a little more poppy, but real good, has gotten great reviews and the whole album is real strong.
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Regards, Craig
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Ivan Posa
From:
Hamilton, New Zealand
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Posted 7 Dec 2002 1:27 am
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| I have just seen the latest Lee Ann Rimes video on the Box. Wow this girl has grown up! The puppy- fat has long gone and she will be great competition for Shania in the "pop" market. Good luck to both of them. They both have a good grounding in country music and I am sure once they have made pots of money, either or both will return to their real country music roots, not to make more money, but for their own satisfaction and enjoyment. There is no doubt, listening to their earlier material, they are both fine singers.....IP [This message was edited by Ivan Posa on 07 December 2002 at 01:29 AM.] |
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Ivan Posa
From:
Hamilton, New Zealand
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Posted 7 Dec 2002 2:09 am
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| Chas, great comments.Love your Menken quote. America has it all, from the worst to the best. Unfortunately the worst seems to be gaining the upper hand, not just in America , but worldwide. Madonna is a classic example. She has made a shit- load of money from nothing. Bad call? NO! Just look at all of her output. Awful, even more so in retrospect. She can barely sing, is an average dancer at best and most definitely no actress, yet has made a fortune along the way. In this day and age talent is not enough, clever marketing and appealing to the lowest common denominator is where the big bucks are to be found. Talent alone will not make you rich and famous, in fact quite the opposite seems to be the case. Another quote from ???? " Because something is popular does not make it good. Because something is good does not neccessarily make it popular." .....IP [This message was edited by Ivan Posa on 07 December 2002 at 02:18 AM.] |
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Ivan Posa
From:
Hamilton, New Zealand
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Posted 7 Dec 2002 2:18 am
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| Double Post... [This message was edited by Ivan Posa on 07 December 2002 at 09:04 PM.] |
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