| Author |
Topic: What would you pay for a new Fender? |
Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 30 Aug 2003 1:46 am |
|
If Fender where to ever make non pedal steels again, it would probably be Stringmasters.
Out of curiosity, if Fender where to reissue a full line of American made Stringmasters for 2004, what would you pay for one? A single neck? A Double? A Triple? A Quad?
Just havin' fun with this one,
Chris
|
|
|
 |
CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
|
Posted 30 Aug 2003 5:11 am
|
|
yeah Chris let's have some .......Fun
LIST Prices
S8 : 999 $
D8 : 1999 $
T8 : 2999 $
Q8 : 3999 $
Made in Japan, Finland, or Brazil ?[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 31 August 2003 at 05:37 AM.] |
|
|
|
Jesse Pearson
From:
San Diego , CA
|
Posted 30 Aug 2003 7:27 am
|
|
I would like to see Fender use their Chinese factories to make the Stringmaster series again to keep the price down, since all the Chinese Fender stuff I've got is great for the money. The way the Stringmaster is designed for assembly line workers etc. would be easier to make than a regular guitar I would think.
If they were made in China, I would like to spend as little as possible for a short scale 8 stringer. I don't know if the legs and case would be extra, I guess they would.
S8 = $299.00
D8 = $499.00
T8 = $699.00
Legs and case = $100.00 to $150.00
If they were made in the States, I'm sure the price would be way up there. I feel bad about not being able to always buy American, but I have been pretty thankful for the good playing and sounding Chinnese instruments. Nothing beats the feeling of owning the real thing when you can work up to it. |
|
|
|
Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 30 Aug 2003 8:58 am
|
|
I don't think they'd sell many at CrowBear's pricing because you can get original vintage Stringmasters cheaper.
Most people interested in this type of axe also want the "vibe" of an original.
If prices of the real things climb, as they should, this changes my story.
If good instruments could be made at Jesse's prices I suspect everyone who ever wanted one would buy one.
I wonder if that's enough to justify production.
|
|
|
|
George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
|
Posted 30 Aug 2003 9:10 am
|
|
| It is amazing how many products we are purchasing today labelled "Made in China"....for example, just lately, I have purchased a power washer; a steam cleaner; a bedroom lamp; a clock; a stereo unit and most lately, a JOHNSON Tri-Cone guitar. I wish I could state it is all crap, but everything is well made and totally satisfactory. What is this doing to US and Canadian manufacturers ? I feel guilty as hell not being able to purchase our own products, yet in the same sense it seems I am buying "our own" brands as they are nationally known products being produced in China. As mentioned (above), it sure affects the cost factor! Far more reasonable to purchase. One has to wonder if labor unions, (and strikes for higher pay) have finally cooked the golden goose ? |
|
|
|
Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted 30 Aug 2003 9:47 am
|
|
George, dear pal, do not blame your ( or anyone else's ) unions for that. Working conditions and wages for a factory worker in China, Macao, Singapore or what have you, are much like what US and Western Europe had fifty or more years ago. Maybe in a few decades, if and when the Orient reaches the same material state of living, the domestic production in Northern America and Europe will revitalize again. But as long as there are people willing to work for a bowl of rice ( and I've heard there are quite a few people living over there ), and consumers who don't give a rats ass where their t-shirt or VCR was made, the capitalistic owned industry will take an advantage of it. Not my opinion, just the way it is, and has always been. But you're right, it does not take anything away from the workmanship, they're excellent for the price. And Crowbear, a Fender made in Finland would cost less than one made in US, but it'd be equally good  |
|
|
|
CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
|
Posted 30 Aug 2003 9:56 am
|
|
you're right Joey
i should edit to "List Price" not Retail
|
|
|
|
George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 4:09 am
|
|
Jussi wrote: "...and consumers who don't give a rats ass where their t-shirt or VCR was made, the capitalistic owned industry will take an advantage of it".
You are correct Jussi...I guess I walked right into that one! However in today's retail market, it is becomming ever more difficult to purchase the nationally known brand names, (names we have come to depend upon over the years), without suddenly realizing when you have the merchandise, it was made in China. I understand your "bowl of rice" argument and I totally agree with everything you stated. |
|
|
|
Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 9:30 am
|
|
George, I wasn't really referring to you with those consumers. I know, that you, me and most of the forumites here do give a rats a$$. But it's the grey mass of Mr & Mrs Averages, who are mostly looking for a "use it and dispose it" products, and the cheaper the better. I'm guilty of wearing t-shirts made in Macao too, but I also own two beautiful custom built guitars by a Finnish luthier.
|
|
|
|
Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 10:04 am
|
|
I'd say CrowBear's price list is about right considering today's prices for other products. But, steel guitars made in China? In a way, I'm glad we don't have the option.
I don't have anything against the Chinese people, except, maybe they need a good explanation of contraception. Over population hurts the world; but they are certainly hurting themselves more. Quality of life means more than numbers. Population growth outpacing social/economic development in foreign countries is the main reason for the spillover of immigrants into this country.
Unions came about as a means to counter the greed of corporate principals who do not own the public companies. I've never been a union member; but I can understand their plight. Corporate principal's compensation could be handled with a simple mathematical equation, if fairness could be established as an incentive, which would negate the need for unions. We already know that numbers do not lie; but accountants and CFO's do everyday. Can you say, Arthur Anderson, Enron, Worldcom, etc?
Rick
|
|
|
|
George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 10:48 am
|
|
| Good point, Rick |
|
|
|
Jason Lollar
From:
Seattle area
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 11:25 am
|
|
I think we are in a sad state, jobs being sent overseas. The playing field is not level. When I sell products to oversaes customers they all pay 25-50% import fees and thier currency exchange is lower- sometimes thier dollar is worth 25 cents.
This makes a 100 dollar item (in the worst case) cost the customer $600 to buy american made products.
Everyone has seen the quality of Korean and Chinese products increase considerably over the last 30 years.
Anyway if they made them new in the US the price would probably be higher than what you can currently pay for a vintage piece. Why do it?
I talked to George Gruhn a couple years ago about Gibsons pricing for new retail and his take was the high price of vintage gear was allowing them to charge more for some of thier new products.
Vintage Stringmasters are a screaming deal, I dont see anyway you could price new made ones made in the US for what you could buy a vintage one for at this point, someday it may change but....
I have noticed an increase in the amount of interest in "lap" steels over the last 6 or 7 years which may continue, kind of dicey, I dont know if it will ever really get big enough for Fender to warrant re-releasing Stringmasters or releated instruments..
I recently bought a cheap new made Artisan lap steel for $75 just for a blank to put one of my lap steel pickups in as a demo unit for that pickup. The basic part of the steel is pretty nice but it has a guitar pickup in it so the string spacing is far too narrow and the output jack is on the players side facing up right under where your right hand rests. No problem for me as I am gutting it and starting over with a new bridge,nut pickup and control plate but for someone just getting into lap steel I would think they would find it frustrating as is.
Do you get what you pay for sometimes? |
|
|
|
Ian Finlay
From:
Kenton, UK
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 1:25 pm
|
|
Just to clear up one prejudice, Chinese people understand birth control very well (and practice it rather better than some Western cultures). In fact, family planning has been enshrined in law for 30 years. See http://www.china.org.cn/english/2002/Oct/46138.htm for some details if you're intrerested.
I suspect you may be confusing China with India or Africa? In which case, when the infant mortality rate is so high, who can blame parents for having enough to ensure that at least a couple survive to maturity?
Sorry if that sounded like I was lecturing, but I really don't get what seems to me as a Brit like an American prejudice against goods from overseas. I believe that world trade was a major contributor to a prosperous USA, and can continue to be so. If American/European/Japanese labour has now priced itself to the point that other countries can compete for all sorts of products and services, so be it. It should lead to a sort of "chapter 11" restructuring for our bloated economies. It's certainly happened over here in the last 10 years.... France and Germany, with their huge subsidies to certain areas, are suffering as they're just not restructuring.
And, I'd suspect S-8 Stringmasters wouldn't sell, D-8's would be £495/$695, T-8's would be £1200+, and Line 6 would do a "varimaster" which would try to sound like a Banjo.
Ian
[This message was edited by Ian Finlay on 31 August 2003 at 02:33 PM.] |
|
|
|
Jesse Pearson
From:
San Diego , CA
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 2:27 pm
|
|
Scott, I have to disagree with you about the Mexican Fender tele verses the Chines teles. One day I compared about 15 Mexican teles with a couple of Chines teles in a sound proof room, I can't explain why, but the Chines sounded alot better and had a better feel. The Mexican teles were made with alder bodies and the Chines had cheap composite wood bodies? I would have gotten a Mexican if it was better but it wasn't. The Fender teles made else where in Asia also don't sound as nice as the Chines, I don't know why. I picked up a couple of Chines teles for friends and noted that they were always set up right and still tuned to A440 right out of the box, the factories in other countries don't seem to do this as much and the Mexican teles were not even set up right.
The United States has a better government than alot of other countries, but it is also very corrupt on alot of issues. China will hopefully get better on Human rights as the benefits of Capitalism increases the quality of life there. |
|
|
|
Donald Ruetenik
From:
Pleasant Hill, California, USA
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 5:00 pm
|
|
Getting back to the Fender reissue issue. What do you suppose it would take to 'lobby' Fender to, at least, respond to the idea of manufacturing the Stringmaster again?
It appears that Fender is into marketing their Strat & Tele painted every which way to Sunday with all different this & thats. Throw in a few cheap acoustics. No doubt an appropriate marketing strategy.
In order for Fender to start making the Stringmaster model again, there must be an overwhelming demand or a market strategy 'hook' that would catch fire.
As far as the last great 'coup' in musical instruments, I think it was the Yamaha DX-7 back in the early 80s. Was there others since? |
|
|
|
Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 6:17 pm
|
|
I am in touch on a monthly basis with the people at Fender. I have a few friends left
that are in marketing and R&D.
I have asked the same questions that many of you have.The answers Im sorry to say are not
of a positive nature to say the least.
It may seem easy to all of us,but Fender is looking more towards buying other companies rather than manufacturing steel guitars.
They have little or no interest whatsoever.
Who knows maybe this will change if the demand is overwhelming,but from all indications this will not happen,not in my lifetime,maybe in yours,,but not mine.
FYI,,I have informed them that they could sell many steel guitars and have posted a few links from this Forum regarding your interest in seeing them get back into steel guitars..but nothing has been said since that time just a few weeks back.
I asked if they would consider refinishing one of my guitars and they cannot accomodate me,but suggested that I ask one of the guys I know in the Custom shop to do it as a home project.
To date I have had no word from them..I can assure you they have their hands full with what they have and maybe have gone in over their heads with the aqquistion of Gretsch etc.
There are other projects they are looking into and its not steel guitars unfortunatly. |
|
|
|
Ian Finlay
From:
Kenton, UK
|
Posted 31 Aug 2003 11:55 pm
|
|
I still wonder how come they don't make White Falcon's with DeArmonds, yet they put them on a Tele model! I'd have one in an instant.
If Fender won't do it, I wonder if Warmoth or similar would start making the bits? I just had a Warmoth Tele done by my (fabulous) guitar tech, and it's better than any of the many many Teles (USA and Mexican) that I tried, including pricey custom shop relics (yes, it's all personal taste of course).
Oam |
|
|
|
Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted 1 Sep 2003 4:08 am
|
|
| Ian, the DeArmonds you see on Teles or other Fenders, are NOT real reissues of the old Dynasonics, nor are the ones on the discontinued DeArmond-brand guitars. Those are with ceramic magnets and they have just ordinary short polepieces, whereas the real ones are alnico and the polepieces are long and extend through the pick up. Therefore the DeArmond PU's seen on the few new Gretsch models are different ( read: more expensive ). You can buy those correct reissues from Duke Kramer's D & F production, as almost any other Gretsch spare part. ( sorry for drifting away from the topic!! ) |
|
|
|
Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
|
Posted 1 Sep 2003 7:04 am
|
|
The market for steel guitars, and especially nonpedal steel guitars world-wide, compared to the volumes of other products manufactured in China would be very small. And, it's not likely to happen.
| Quote: |
| Just to clear up one prejudice, Chinese people understand birth control very well |
Prejudice? ...hardly. Convinced? ...absolutely. Correction, the Chinese government understands birth control very well. The very fact that that there must be a monetary penalty for parents is a tacit admission that the populace did not understand the importance of family planning. It has been only a short while since I read an independent report stating that the Chinese government was not pleased with the progress of Chinese family planning.
Most Americans that I talk with are concerned with foreign imports for the reasons of: tariffs on American goods going into foreign markets and American corporations seeking "slave labor" in other countries to get their products manufactured.
On this Labor Day in the U.S. there are 9.1 million qualified people out of work. There are 535 lawmakers in the Congress of the U.S. with not the backbone to admit that their decisions on trade practices do not work now and will not work for the future.
Rick
|
|
|
|
John Borchard
From:
Athens, OH 45701
|
Posted 8 Sep 2003 11:19 am
|
|
Maybe Tokai will start producing a "Schwingmaster" line to capitalize on those hot to own an old Fender but can't find/afford one.  I'd buy one if it was as good as their strat copies.
John Borchard |
|
|
|
Bill Stafford
From:
Gulfport,Ms. USA
|
Posted 8 Sep 2003 3:56 pm
|
|
HI Jody, I am glad I still have my triple neck stringmaster purchased many, many years ago. Still looks new and plays just as well when I want to feel good in my memories of the "good ole days".. lol
Take care and the best to you and yours..
Bill Stafford |
|
|
|
Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
|
Posted 9 Sep 2003 12:16 pm
|
|
| Bill,no matter what brand guitar you play,you are GREAT. |
|
|
|
George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
|
Posted 9 Sep 2003 1:00 pm
|
|
| Bill could play a one string swinette or a fog-o-phone and get heavenly music from both! What a fantastic musician he is!!!! |
|
|
|
Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
|
Posted 9 Sep 2003 3:29 pm
|
|
Keoki
If I could play 1/10 as good as Bill Stafford
I would play the swinette while its still on
the cats 
BTW how do you tune a swinette?? |
|
|
|
Donald Ruetenik
From:
Pleasant Hill, California, USA
|
Posted 9 Sep 2003 6:50 pm
|
|
Getting back to the issue of the reissue: Suppose Fender did go ahead and reissue the Stringmaster. What do you suppose would be the changes they would make to a new one or what changes would you think they should make?
Now I'm sure there are going to be those that would want to keep it exactly as it was. However, there may be some improvements that modern technology might impose. |
|
|
|
