Question for PF

Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

Paul...you stated recently that we're in "transitional times" in terms of country music. In your opinion does that indicate that the traditional three chord story telling type music is gone. I personally subscribe to the Woody Guthrie(?) philosophy.."if you know more than three chords..you're just showin' off".(just kiddin) or the John Prine philosophy. First write the song then take out all the unecessary words.....regards RC

[This message was edited by RC Antolina on 19 May 2001 at 11:07 PM.]

erik · Posted 20 May 2001 2:41 am

RC, have you tried writing songs? There is only so many ways you can twist three chords. I know because i'm trying.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

What's wrong with 3 chords?? I did a session back in the 70's that was a take off on the Charlie's Angels TV show - the name of the song was "Tonight I'm Taking Charlie's Angels Home" - and later Mel Tillis did another song tht was pleasurized (I won't say stolen) from that song.

The song made many radio station play lists and even got into the top 10 on the stations. Charlie Douglas was playing it on his all night show on WLW in New Orleans. It only had three chords.

"The rest of the story". They guy that wrote the song, John Moudy" had written quite a few songs and they all had varying amounts of chords, but none 3 chords. He went to Nashville and somehow got into see Fred Rose of Acuff-Rose publishing. He was told his songs with all the chords in them were not country and that he should go home and write a good 3 chord country song and the outcome was the Charlie's Angel song.

There are, obviously, many outstanding songs that have more than three chords, but this is a good example of three chords doing the job.

erik · Posted 20 May 2001 6:28 am

I think the answer is in your reply. It was the 70s. Today, it is hard to come up with something original with three chords, that's all i'm saying.

Craig A Davidson · From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

Erik, You can look at that another way. If you were able to write a three chord song, it would for sure be different from all the others. It might stand out in the crowd and become a hit. It might start a trend. The next thing you know someone else will follow up and write a three chord shuffle. A guy can dream can't he?

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Franklin · Posted 20 May 2001 7:23 am

RC<
I don't see that three chords has anything to do with it. "Cracker" has a current smash pop hit which is a story song with an extremely simple melody and has only a few chords. Yet this song sounds as hip as anything out today.
Each decade brings forth new sounds in all forms of music. Musicians are inspired by what they hear, and what they hear is widely more diverse than what they heard in the past. Also because of the easy access to hearing and learning everything, things seem to change faster now. The path of gaining knowledge from the worlds various musical wells with the intent of increasing our personal musicianship skills changes everything, eventually.

Paul

Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

Paul...Thanks for your input. Yes music evolves and for the reasons you gave. Compare if you will the Rock 'n Roll sounds of the 50's to todays rock sounds, niether better nor worse just different. I merely wanted your opinion. IMO 3chord country will always be around at some level but not perhaps with the popularity it once dominated with.

Erik...If I were to write songs I guess I'd start out with the 3 chord stuff and try a story line from my experience. I'd try to include cadence and simplicity with a knock out grabber (chorus). I wouldn't make it so complex that the average listener couldn't remember the words or story line. If I have to listen 3 times or more just to understand it the song writer probably missed the mark. Listen to some George Jones to understand my meaning and compare it to "Grown Men". Look at all the hits with the same chord structures. I wouldn't worry about twisting the three chords. I'd find a formula that works and go with it. Far too often IMHO writers try to establish a musical opus and then add the words to fit, the result being less than spectacular. BTW Thanks for your gentlemanly responses as we press on with these debates. All we really need to agree on is that we will occaisionally disagree......

[This message was edited by RC Antolina on 20 May 2001 at 01:29 PM.]

[This message was edited by RC Antolina on 20 May 2001 at 02:03 PM.]

Joe Smith · From: Charlotte, NC, USA

There are a lot of songs with only 2 chords. Achie Breakie Heart is one, so is The Electric Slide. I'm sure there are lots more.
I wish I had the ability to write a two chord mega hit.

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Playing PSG keeps you on your toes.

[This message was edited by Joe Smith on 21 May 2001 at 01:16 PM.]

Sage · From: Boulder, Colorado

The number of chords a song has does not translate automatically into a melody that is harder or easier to sing, IMHO. Back in the 20's and 30's the tin pan alley writers pounded out all kinds of pop music, most of it having lots of chords. The great melodies are usually simple and easy to sing- "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows", "Bye Bye Blues", etc. Cole Porter's "Don't Fence Me In" has all kinds of chords, but that doesn't make it hard to sing.
Coming up with a good melody that matches the mood of what you're trying to say, and then putting changes under it is quite a job. Having many chords to choose from shouldn't take anything away from a song- only insensitivity to melody and content, IMO.

Sage · From: Boulder, Colorado

erik and Craig- I'm still waiting for someone to write the first country Shuffa-waltz in 5/4 time. My guess is I'll probably end up having to do it myself.

[This message was edited by Sage on 21 May 2001 at 05:25 PM.]

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

"Take five and shove it"?

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Olli Haavisto
Polar steeler
Finland

Jeff A. Smith · From: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.

Good one, Olli.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

"Land Of 1,000 Dances" only had ONE chord! But, I digress. If "complexity" was the thing that made music popular, then classical and jazz would be all you heard on the radio!When you're writing a vocal, the major emphasis should not be on chords, but on the words and melody. The average person doesn't know chords from intervals. But, they know words, and can appreciate their combination with a melody line that is simple enough to hum and remember.

(P.S. to erik...Back when I was younger, I used to think there was no "new way" of arranging only three chords...then I heard the repetitive I-V-IV x4 rhythm in Fogarty's "Bad Moon Rising".)

erik · Posted 22 May 2001 7:12 pm

Actually, i meant creating a original melody that falls within a three chord structure.

Steve G · From: San Leandro, CA, USA

Erik
Have you listened to Merle Haggard's latest CD, "If I Could Only Fly"? There are alot of 3 chord songs there with original melodies. As a matter of fact I think that album is one of Merle's all time greatest. Just MHO. BTW, I think that Norm's steel playing, as sparse as it may be on the CD, is some of the most beautiful he has ever played. Simplicity is the way to go as far as I am concerned.

Steve G

Frank · Posted 28 May 2001 8:46 pm

Question, How many cords did the song BJ the dj have in it?

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

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[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 01 May 2002 at 05:34 PM.]

Don Townsend · From: Turner Valley, Alberta Canada

I thought somebody would have mentioned "One Note Samba" by now???

Pete Mitchell · From: Buda, Texas, USA

Jim Miller, I tip my hat to you. Great thread! Very, very well put.

A very successful, well-known producer once advised me, "Don't be so concerned with what the musician is going to think of your product. Be concerned with what Ethel and Vern will think of your product." ...... Pete