Where will the pickers come from???

ROBERT MYERS · From: HEDGESVILLE, W.VA. USA

Sleepy John, Right on. I know just what you mean.The band I play with used to play three weekends a month. Now we're down to one, because of DJ's & KARAOKE ( MEANS TONE DEAF) I'm glad that spring is around the corner, because we play a lot of fairs & ox roast and such so we'll be busy all summer.
As far as the pickers go, I don't know. Throw some of the Hot Shot's into an Open Mic Jam and see how good they really are. That give's a whole new meaning to Playing by ear.
All I can say is down with DJ's and KARAOKE and keep on picking.

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Bob Myers Derby S10 3&4

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

There are a few young "country" musicians but they are hard to find. Most of the younger musicians (and shoot the flames but many under 50) grew up listening to rock and that is their basis for all music. It's not that they are bad musicians, just their roots are not in traditional country. If "country" music takes a turn and returns to it's roots there will be a lot of musicians rushing to relearn real country and a lot of pop/rock musicians packing their bags and leaving Nashville.

I grew up listening to traditional Country music, the Wheeling Jamboree, the WRVA in Richmond, Va jamboree, the opry, etc. That was primarily the type of music I heard and I've had to "adapt" to other types. There weren't any country music "concerts" just good ole country music shows.

Looking on the bright side, I see a lot of young Bluegrass musicians. If there are Bluegrass musicans around there has to be some traditional country musicians around.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I agree SJ! Things aren't what they used to be. Yeah, they're selling more steels today. But I think that's just because there are more people. (Twice as many people buy twice as many steels...but that's not an increase in popularity...just an increase in the number of buyers!) And it's not just Country Music, but ALL forms of music. Live music just isn't as popular as it used to be.

Maybe it'll turn around. Maybe people will get tired of technology, and get into art forms and music again. Or maybe we will practically fade away in another 50 years...like the accordian and tenor banjo.

Aside from the few steel shows, and the very few artists like Alan Jackson, I see very little to rejoice over.

Bill Cunningham · From: Atlanta, Ga. USA

Yes there are a lot of kids running around out there with karaoke machines who can't sing. However there are a lot of talented young people who are forced to use the machine because the old guys in the band (and that includes ME at 42 years old) can't do them justice. So I have no problem with them using tape or CD's if I can't do my part. If your getting paid, you need to be able to do the job.

I agree that a karaokee machine at a jam session is out of place.

You guys need to go back and read Country Gentleman where Chet talks about going more modern and breaking away from Sam and Kirk. Its no different with today great pickers.

I can also give you a copy of a 1961 interview with Bob Wills where he explains that he isn't selling as much any more because its the young people who call the DJ's and buy the records.

I think we choose to remember the parts we like best from the past.

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Carter D-10 8+9, BCT, TPPP

Kevin Walker · From: Roanoke,VA. UNITED STATES

I'd say if you want to work at any level as a pedal steel player these days, you need to be able to produce a new country,i.e. pop sound. I think this thinking or frame of mind is basically what will keep steel guitar alive. I also think that Buddy Emmons' and Sonny Garrish were always way ahead of their time. In other words', they both saw the writing on the wall. Paul Franklin has done what? 95% of all session work in the last decade, at least what's coming out of Nashville. I'd say this means he produces a sound that needs to be heard.
I know I've spent enough time trying to copy alot of what he plays.
Take it for what it's worth.

Earl Erb · From: Old Hickory Tenn

Thanks John for mentioning my name but I don't think I have as much impact on your point because most of the guys on the forum don't have a clue as to who in the hell I am or my back ground.
Your right about the honky tonks and jam sessions.Thats where you get an education and learn to hone your skills as a player.I wish I had a dollar for every all night jam I attended...I would be a wealthy guy.
I think a player needs to be versatile to survive...meaning not limiting yourself to one style of music.Thats what kept me going all those years.
There are a few clubs on lower broad that have bands with great players...Johnny Hiland comes to mind.I know there are more out there but I don't have much of a night life so I don't keep up with who is in town.
I know when Brent Mason came to town in the mid 80's he worked the joints until he got some breaks.I heard he had it rough in the early days.
The only other guitar player I can think of,from my era,that still gets out and picks is Gregg Galbraith.I learned so much from Gregg over the years and he is still my hero.
I think the Time Jumpers are keeping the torch lit in Nashville and there is still hope.If you want to have a good jam session than show up with a guitar and amp and your talent and leave the gadgets home.I'm not impressed with how many sounds you can generate but I am impressed with what comes off of the tips of your fingers.
The band that Jim Murphy plays in at the Long Hollow Jamboree is another band that keeps the flame burning.They play the good stuff that was always fun to play and is as close to the old days as you will ever get.
I don't think us old guys can come back and save the day because now you have to be able to sing and dance...than play.I just hope the young players can experience the things I did that made me a better player and I wouldn't trade those musical experiences for anything...because thats where I got my education.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Being versatile has its place. Being versatile keeps you working. But, being versatile has a "down side" too. You can get "lost in the mix" very often, and when you're going off in ten different directions, you're likely not to really "master" any of them. Is it me, or is it getting harder to tell "who's doing what"?

There are perhaps a dozen steel players I can think of who can really "do it all", and most of them get few calls to do their own stuff. Mostly, they're backup musicians in a studio doing a lot of generic stuff just for the money. (No flames, please...nothing wrong with them doing what they want.) But the really individual sounding stylists, the ones I came up liking (Chalker, Brumley, Mooney, Emmons, Charleton, Myrick, Rugg, and others) the ones even a singer could recognize, have disappeared. Sure, there's great steelplayers still out there today. But (IMHO) the style and imagination that brought me to the instrument is (for the most part) gone.

Today, everything (in this new wave of Country Music) sounds the same.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

Earl Erb · From: Old Hickory Tenn

Donny,I'll take my chances being versatile as opposed to being key holed as only being able to play one style of music.Key holeing works for a few but not all.

Abe Stoklasa · From: Nashville, TN

I agree with you completely Sleepy! That's why I'm glad my dad is teaching me where country music came from, becuase if you know where it came from, and see what's happening today, you can figure out what country music's gonna be like in 20 years. Today, about 8% (Estimate) out of all the country stars in the world are really COUNTRY. Well, I guess thats all I had to say!

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

One problem I have found with pickers that have only played country music in bars is that they sometimes get lazy and boring. Intonation doesn't matter much when you play for a bunch of drunks all night. And it seems like alot of the bar room players just play the same licks over and over again. If it works why change it .

Steel guitar and music are not going to end just because its hard to find a steady bar gig. I play regular bar gigs and its not that great. Compared to recording or concert work bar gigs sorta suck.

One thing I would like to add is that it is very easy for young players to get experience recording these days with all the project studios. Nothing like hearing yourself on a CD to get you off your ass to work on articulation and intonation !

Things really are not that bad out there.

Bob

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Bar jobs are not all bad. I kinda like to do a bar/club now and then. Sort of takes me back to my roots and makes me feel I'm in familiar territory. Also not all bar bands are mundane or sloppy, I've played in some bar bands with excellent pickers (some of the best pickers in town) and you had to do it right and be on your toes.

I'm now doing a lot of shows, down here in Florida, and shows are great but it's nothing like the intimacy of a club.

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

There is more to agree with with all these posted thoughts than disagree with..I'm not glad I no longer have too play but I am content that I no longer want too..Content because I wouldn't feel what has to be played now,maybe I just couldn't do it...As to the great player names mentioned I don't know if they had great visions of what the future would need but one can see they were the teachers..They would come up with things all had to learn and it was free..All one had to do was get the records and woodshed..They are responsible for the great developement of many players and still are..I don't think that because Nashville uses only one particular player means he is the only one qualified..It could mean 1: there isn't enough work for all 2:It could mean a lot don't want to play the crap 3:It could mean all want the "in man at this time"..There has always been an "A" team and it changes from time to time depending on how much work the players want..There are plenty of "A" players in Nashville and elsewhere and most all owe their developement to the Emmons and Chalkers Greens Garrish Myricks Hughey's,Franklins and more.And that still continues to this day as they have continued to be the ambassadors of the instrument.It is now up to those in the limelight of their careers the Franklins,Whites,ect. who have the super skills to carry on into the future.I am hopeful when a great group such as the Time Jumpers emerges,can bring back and help us hold onto a great tradition.

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CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 11 February 2001 at 08:47 AM.]

Joel Glassman · From: Waltham MA USA

I'd say that a bluegrass music background is one source of musicians who have a traditional outlook and good chops. Jerry Douglas, Ricky Skaggs, Aubrey Haney, Mark O'Connor are people who have played country music at some point.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Here we go again!

Someone says "be versatile", or "play a new style" and you'll find all kinds of recording or concert work. Come on, guys...be realistic! There's not enough recording and concert work out there to keep even the "A-List" players in groceries, let alone the "average" player! The reason that there's so many unemployed steelmen (and other musicians, as well) is that there aren't nearly as many jobs out there as there used to be. Now, you can run down people's ability or attitude all you want, but that doesn't change this fact. In most areas, LIVE MUSIC IS DYING!

In truth, the secret to "steady work" is, in one word...MILES. If you can (and want to) travel a lot, you can keep busy. Other than Branson, and (maybe) Nashville, I'd sure like to know of some cities where more than 2 or 3 steelmen are making a good living. (I guess a lot of others would too!)

I don't like to be a pessimist, but someone here's gotta tell it like it is.

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

lets fast forward ten years from now..will there be enough country music still on the radio,recordings to actually keep any musicians working? Will there be any bands vs music in the box,Kareoke..ten years from now will it matter where the musicians come from if there is no work.

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CJC

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Good point, Joe.

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

Yeah.... and then, be fair, and wind the clock back fifteen years, pull out your bic lighter, hold it in the air, and turn up the radio to listen to Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton pump out saccharine-laced schlock like "Islands in the Stream".
Then lean back in your bean-bag chair, and say; "Yup, by the year 2000, all the steel players will be gone".
Bullroar.

-John

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

I don't think they will all be gone,just the places to play, might be hard to find..And at 3.00 a gallon of gas they better be close.

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CJC

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Any club/bar/whatever that has live music (a live band) legally has to have a license. How many do is questionable. However, not all the licensing agencies police or enforce their licensing on clubs.

With Karaoke, if it's "used" for profit I guess that would fall into a royalty category.

I used to work for a juke box and background music co and juke boxes were paid with an annual license, background music was paid based on how many times each song was played and they kept a list of every song that was played each day.

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

I might be wrong, but it seems like the original question was: where will the new pickers (presumably "musicians") come from if more traditional country music makes a come back.

In my opinion, saying that the lack of honky tonk gigs will cause the source of good musicians to dry up is a bit like putting the cart before the horse. That is, the music is defined by the musician, not the other way around.

In other words, I don't think it really matters where the musician has played, or how long the musician has played, or how old the musician is, etc.

What matters is what the musician plays. That is, what matters is the music, not where the music came from. There are plenty of fine musicians who never played in a honky tonk.

In fact, country originated from a bunch of folks sitting around the house after a hard day in the mines, or in the field, or in the factory, playing for the shear enjoyment of it. It didn't come from some sleazy, smokey bar. Don't get me wrong, there have been plenty of good musicians who have played in sleazy, smokey bars, but just because you play in a sleazy bar doesn't mean you're going to be good.

My point is that good musicians will develop and will rise to the top to fill whatever musical need there is, even if they didn't spend years playing in a honky tonk.

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

I couldn't agree more with you, retcop88 -- experience is definitely one of the keys to a great musician. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that experience is the one most important factor in developing a good musician.

On the other hand, does it really matter whether the experience is gained in a bar or at church revivals? Does it really matter whether experience results in income or not? Some of the finest bluegrass musicians around have never played in bars and most have never been able to make a living from playing their music. Still, they play, and they play good.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Copyrights -- the owners of the copyright generally has the right to prevent someone from performing a song of which they own the copyright, and/or taking any monies earned from the performance of such copyrighted songs.

Normally, it's not worth the hassle for the copyright owners to enforce every little infringement. However, sometimes they will choose to make an example out of some little guy who's infringing on their copyright, even if it doesn't result in making a net gain.

Another thing to remember about copyrights is that infringers are also liable for criminal penalties in some instances.

By the way, it doesn't matter if the performance of a song is done for profit or not for profit. An unauthorized performance is an anauthorized performance.

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 19 February 2001 at 03:43 PM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I'm a bit surprised that a former police officer would think that the law is a matter of opinion.

Is it only against the law if I GET CAUGHT robbing that liquor store?

LTB

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 20 February 2001 at 08:09 AM.]

Drew Covington · From: Hendersonville, TN USA

I play fiddle in the band at the Long Hollow Jamboree that Mr. Erb mentioned in one of his posts. The very first time I ever played with a band was right there at the LHJ six years ago when I was fifteen. I worked with that band for about a year and a half until they let us all go so they could replace us with that dreaded karaoke (is that how you spell it?) When that band hired me, they handed me a stack of records including Ray Price's first twelve Columbia albums and several Johnny Bush albums and told me to go learn how to play that material. That material was basically all we played. I'm so grateful for having had the opportunity to learn to play true country music. Now I'm back at the LHJ playing with a different band that includes the great Jim Murphy on steel guitar. We are doing a lot of the same 4/4 shuffles we did before, and we are throwing in some western swing and jazz, so now I'm learning those styles. At the ripe old age of 21, I'd rather go play 4/4 shuffles and western swing at the LHJ than to play Top 40 country any day of the week. I think traditional country music will survive for no other reason than that it is a truly great form of music, and I hope I can be a part of helping it do just that.

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