Were these singers country or rock?

Gregg Galbraith · From: Goodlettsville,Tn.,USA

I have been a dyed-in-the-wool country music fan since the early '60s. However, this would never have happened were it not for the frequency of "cross-over" hits in the last half of the '50s decade. Nobody in my family listened to country music, so my love for the music came about from my listening to rock stations------mostly WIBC in Indianapolis. Here is a list of artists who I became aware of for the first time by listening to Rock 'n' Roll:

Johnny Cash,Don Gibson,Jim Reeves,George Hamilton,IV,Johnny Horton,Hank Locklin,Claude King,Bobby Helms,Marty Robbins,CHET ATKINS!,The Browns, Skeeter Davis,Leroy Van Dyke,Brenda Lee,The Everly Bros.,Jerry Lee Lewis,etc.

The common denominator seemed to be---hardly any fiddle or steel on their "cross-over" hits.

While I cannot relate to most of today's country radio, I have to admit that the more things change, the more they remain the same!

Anyone care to add to my list or dispute my facts?

Gregg

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Gregg, pretty good list, however Jerry Lee Lewis is primarily known for rock n roll with some country.

Back in the mid 60's I worked for a Juke Box company in Harrisburg, Pa. Along with service, I also did the collections and the record programming/purchasing. One big "country" artist that had several crossover hits was Roger Miller. His Dang Me went to #1 on the pop Billboard list and even the places we had "teeny bopper" juke boxes played the thing to death.

But, the biggest majority of cross overs back then was by accident not by design or intent,as it is today. Totally different animal. Today, the Nashville product is aimed at the 34 and under, which supposedly buys the majority of product. Back then Nashville was not targeting a specific age group, only the "country" sector.

Or as I was told by a session picker, "today we are producing music" - not we are producing country music or crossover or whatever - just music.

Listen to the lyrics on Murder on Music Row.

frank rogers · From: usa

Let's not forget your old boss "Whispering Bill" and his huge crossover, "Still". It was #1 on our local top 40 station. And BTW a lot of the artists you listed were on RCA and produced by Chet Atkins also.

[This message was edited by frank rogers on 21 February 2000 at 03:14 PM.]

Pat Burns · From: Branchville, N.J. USA

Here's a few I'd add to your list, off the top of my head, from listening to the AM stations around here when I was a kid...

Johnny Rivers, Roger Miller, Ray Charles, Duane Eddy...if I remember some more, I'll add them. How about Roy Orbison, I think I'd toss him in, too. (Crying)

(Boy, nothing for 3 hours, I decide to post an answer, and I come in third! Did you guys see me coming?)

[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 21 February 2000 at 03:29 PM.]

Janice Brooks · From: Pleasant Gap Pa

Seems like in the pre FM days, Radio was less formatted and more varied. From what I have have heard some of these guys wanted the sales such as Johnny Horton with the Battle Of New Orleans. I also think in the wake of the payola hearings in 1959, country music helped fill the gaps.

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C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Greg,

I do not mean this disrespectful in any way, but I never felt the following was country:

Leroy Van Dyke, The Everly Bros.,Jerry Lee Lewis.

As a matter of fact I heard LeRoy VanDyke actually say he did not like country music. The Everly Bros and Jerry Lee were pure R & R from where I come from.

I would also seriously question Claude King as being Country. If he was, I never recall a country tune. In fact the only thing I ever remember him doing was "Wolverton Mountain". However, he may have been.

But you are correct, many R & R stations did ocassionally play country music. I am not so sure they do that much any more. Oh, they and many would argue that they do because they play Garth and Shania, etc.

But I have never ever considered them country either.

anyway.

God bless you,

Carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 21 February 2000 at 04:43 PM.]

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Gregg raises an interesting question -- what is "country?" Well, in my humble opinion, it's really impossible to clearly define it. Everyone's opinion is surely different, depending on personal taste, etc.

For example, I think of Buck Owens as country, but supposedly, when he started out in the late 50's, the "country" people in Nashville thought of his "Bakersfield sound" as more like Rock and Roll.

Incidentally, a similar thing supposedly happened to Dwight Yoakum when he, more or less, helped instigate a revival of the Bakersfield sound in the 80's. In order to get any recognition, he had to leave Nashville and go to LA and play in rock and roll clubs until he got "famous," whereupon he returned to Nashville.

Finally, (and I'll probably get bashed for saying this), much of the supposedly "country" music coming out of Nashville today is, in my opinion, nothing more than pop music sung with a country accent -- especially when compared to what most people consider to be traditional country, if there is such a thing.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Regardless of what LeRoy Van Dyke might have said...he was considered "Country" by the Country fans I knew!

With all due respect, I don't think you can classify "Walk On By" (his only top-10 record, I believe) as "Rock", and it sure wasn't "Pop" either!

Boomer · From: Brentwood, TN USA

Gregg - This may be too simplistic an answer, but one of the reasons I feel top 40 stations played some country artists is, strangely enough, there weren't enough credible pop artists around. And the biggest pop records of that era of the 50's were hillbilly influenced (J. L. Lewis, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, Bill Haley). Consequently pop radio played a lot of artists with that same sort of background and similar sound. Hence you have a lot of that southern influence at those radio stations. Remember back then the King of Rock n' Roll was a country boy with an R&B influence, backed by a doghouse bass, a guitar player that played a mutated version of Travis-style picking and a drummer who to this day is still one of the best 2/4 players in the business. Best, Boomer

Jimmy Youngblood · Posted 21 Feb 2000 6:31 pm

Wonder why "Sleep Walk" never got much (if any) airplay on country radio.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I remember, as a kid, really loving Skeeter Davis' "End of the World". It sure wasn't a country song to me! And it sure was being played on "rock" radio. And I remember how, as an adult, I was dumbfounded to discover that Skeeter Davis was considered a "country artist"!! (Of course, I'd never heard anything else she'd ever recorded, and I still haven't. Was "End of the World" an exception, or was somebody just playing marketing games?)

Jackie Toney · From: Johnson City, Tn USA

Didn't Skeeter Davis start out as one of the Davis Sisters? I remember the song "I've Forgot More Than You'll Ever Know About Him" sung by the Davis Sisters.

Jackie

Janice Brooks · From: Pleasant Gap Pa

my first memory of the song The End of the
World was Hermans Hermits version on the flip side of Henry the 8th. Skeeter and Billy Jack (?) recorded as the Davis sisters
around 1951. the other gal was killed in an accident shortly afterwords.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Yes Jackie,

Skeeter in fact did start out as a sister act "The Davis Sisters". And their hit "I've forgotten more than you'll ever know about him", was a very big hit. She has probably sung it 17 zillion times with others singing the alto part for the last 45 yrs.

Her sister was tragically killed shortly after that hit came out.

One of the things about Skeeter that very few people know, is her amazing way with an audience when she is called upon.

One night in Miami, Fla, she was appearing as a guest on a Faron Young show. Faron was delayed for several hours in getting to the theater.

That skeeter, for two hours had that audience spell bound. She was priceless that night.

Go with God,

carl

Billy Johnson · From: Nashville, Tn, USA

Carl,the Davis sisters were not really sisters. Skeeter(Mary Penick),sang harmony to Betty Jack Davis on "I Forgot More".After Betty Jacks death, Skeeter went on to become the first female country artist to have a #1 crossover hit in the pop charts, "End Of the World". Billy

Bill cole · From: Cheektowaga, New York, USA

I don't want to tell how old i am but I wondered how long it was going to take before some one figured out they weren't sisters. And for those who think Barf and shanie are country we won't hold that agin ya it aint your fault and we all make mistakes at time of course other then me cause I don't make mistakes if you don't believe me ask me. I may not be right all the time but I've never known my self to be wrong yet

[This message was edited by Bill cole on 22 February 2000 at 08:45 AM.]

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

I guess Conway Twitty was considered a rock/pop guy... Then later he ended up being a vehicle for us to hear some of the nicest steel playing around. Of course, that's before my time.

In fairness to the "under 50" crowd, I thought Gram Parsons name should be mentioned as someone who had the gift of "making country music palatable" (to quote Dan Dugmore) to a whole new audience who came from another direction, but never went back.
As far as "crossover hits", I know his live performance of "Love Hurts" was nominated for an award, with EmmyLou and forumite Neil Flanz on steel. I was a little astonished to hear Cher sing it lately. (!) The wheel goes round and round.
-John

Kenny Dail · From: Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.

...and the beat goes on...

kd

George Duncan Sypert · From: Colo Spgs, Co, USA

In regards to hearing what was considered cross over country during the 50's or even earlier in the 40's. In the mid 50's to early 60's there were very few full time country station am or fm in the United States. Only stations that programmed some country for an hour or so a day at various times. Mostly late at night. The first full time country music station KDAV was started in Sept of 1953 by Dave Pingston "Pappy Dave Stone" in Lubbock, with another in San Angelo, Amarillo and Colo Spgs. I just spoke with Dave to verify this info a few minutes ago. I personally spent a lot of time as kid searching the radio dial for country music as far back as I can remember and that is around 1945 in Central Texas. Many stations in that area simply would not play what was considered "hillbilly music" much to my regret. Most all of the acts that Gregg mentions are today considered country or rock a billy. In 1954-1958 most of the acts Gregg mentioned were considered Rock and Roll or Pop. I don't believe that Jim Reeves recorded any thing that sounded too country after Bimbo or about that time frame. Four Walls and He'll have to go were made to play on the "pop" hours as well as the "country & Western" hour. The term "Country Music" is a name that derived when Country and Western (which to most folks meant hillbilly) was shorten to try and make it more appealing to a wider audience. Making recordings to try and appeal to a wider audience is nothing new. Example, Vaughn Monroe's Ghost Riders in the Sky, Tennessee Ernie's Shot-gun Boogie and hundreds of others.

I personally like all of the older music: pop, swing, big band, hillbilly, country & western, rock & roll and bluegrass. However, I listen to and play most of today's country music even though I don't care for most of it. All of the music we call old now was new and we were young when we first liked it. A lot of it I didn't like then but do now. I didn't like Strait or Whitley when they first came out but they grew on me. Whitley has come be one of my favorites.

Gregg mentioned that his family didn't listen to country. Fact is that during that time frame you couldn't find many people who would admit to listening to or liking it. Even in Texas. Gregg is exactly right when he says things stay the same. I drive a school bus (all grades) and very few kids will admit to listening to country. However, the ones that will, express their love of THEIR country just as we did when younger.

I attended ever Country Show that I could access while growing up in CenTex. I was lucky enough to see the Davis Sisters just before the one girl got killed. Also saw Johnny Horton shortly before his accident. As a matter of fact, Elvis was there(in Uniform) that night also standing next to me back stage. Johnny announced that he was there and just about emptied the place. I didn't realize who he was until Johnny said something.

I guess what I really wanted to say is that there is still a lot of good and bad music out there with a lot of good Steel and Fiddle. As always you just have to pick and choose according to your personal taste. I still want to hear Price, McCall, Young, Owens, Tillis, Wills, and many others and that is why I have a good library that gets added to all the time both OLD and new country.

Gregg, thanks again for your recent kind response to my request.

Please no Flames. This was not intended to put down anyone else's opinion or taste. Just remembering the way things used to be and I miss it.

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Gregg Galbraith · From: Goodlettsville,Tn.,USA

George,
Thanks for the post. You said it better than I was able to! I think we all tend to "date" things from our first exposure, and to hold fondest those positive elements we were exposed to during our formative years.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Billy,

I stand corrected then. I never ever heard that in 45 yrs. Billy, was that common knowledge? If, so I do wonder how it passed me by.

I was so taken with their hit that, even to day when I see Skeeter perform, my mind always goes back to that tremendous hit.

As I think back, it sounds like JB playing the steel on "I've Forgot". Does anyone know if it was in fact Jerry?

Walk with Jesus,

carl

Billy Johnson · From: Nashville, Tn, USA

Carl, I remember hearing about it growing up,She talks about it in her book titled "Bus Fare to Kentucky" If you want one you can get it through ETs record shop. Billy

Billy Johnson · From: Nashville, Tn, USA

Another one for the list:Wanda Jackson. I worked overseas with her and you would've thought she was a female Elvis or something. I did'nt know she did the rockabilly thing.Billy

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I remember when I was in high school in the 50's some of the top tunes we all danced and listened to were: A Rose & a Baby Ruth by George Hamilton IV, A White Sport Coat and a Pink Carnation by Marty Robbins, Young Love by Sonny James, The Purple People Eater by Sheb Wooley, Ballad of a Teenage Queen by Johnny Cash. It seems like a lot of country artists were either by design or accident having a lot of pop radio airplay. I remember seeing Don Gibson on American Bandstand singing Oh Lonesome Me. It was all good music just like todays music. There is good and bad in traditional country as any other kind of music (unless it's by a west coast artist, then it's all good) so just look for what you like and to Hell with the label.

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Have a good one! JH U-12

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Yes, "End Of The World" is also burned indelibly into my memory! This was a "Countrypolitan" release, along the same lines as Patsy Cline's stuff. It was a monster crossover hit, despite the fact it had a little (very little) steel (Pete Drake, I believe).

The song was modeled after Brenda Lee's slow stuff, and the Cline stuff that began the "crossover" movement. One of her follow-ups was a song called "I Can't Stay Mad At You", also a chart record. (It sounded strangely like Neil Sedaka's "Breakin' Up Is Hard To Do".) This song had no audible steel, and therefore was a minor rock success as well.

Yes friends, decades before Garth and Shania, Country Music was changing it's course!

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 23 February 2000 at 01:54 PM.]

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