| Author |
Topic: Search for thePerfect Dobro Pickup |
Tim Tweedale
From:
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
|
Posted 9 Jun 2003 11:27 am |
|
I have read all the posts on dobro pickups with great interest, and have greatly appreciated all the advice.
I recently bought a McIntyre feather for my Johnson roundneck (converted with a Hawaiian nut). Through my Fishman ProEQ Platinum (carefully EQ'd), into the JC 120, I'd give the sound about 5/10 -- hollow and woofy sounding with little punch and attack. Highs feedback if pushed up the slightest amount. However, it does do something to honestly reproduce the tone of the resonator which is good. Today I am going to run it through a P.A. and see how the sound improves, but it seems that the bottom line is that in order to get a decent and realistic sound, I'm going to have to blend the Mac with either a mic or a magnetic pickup.
So in order to get the attack right and make the sound more present, I'm going to go for a lace sensor and try blending the two and see how that goes. Does the lace sensor need a preamp? Are they warm or cold in tone, and anything like a dobro? How's the note-attack? Are they single-coil or humbucking? Any other suggestions on a top mounting magnetic pickup?
Regarding clip on mics; it seems that people have had good things to say especially about the Shure beta 98 and ATM35. Does the fact that they're connected to the guitar make them more susceptible to feedback? Do those of you who use them use pre-amps?
I joined this forum today, having read the posts for a while, and I'm very glad this community exists.
-Tim[This message was edited by Tim Tweedale on 09 June 2003 at 12:28 PM.] |
|
|
 |
Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
|
Posted 10 Jun 2003 6:45 am
|
|
Tim,
I don't have any experience with magnetic pickups on resos.
IMHO, a mic sounds the best, but is the first to feedback. The pickups, like the feather and the Fishman, sound pretty good, and are not as sensitive to feedback. A magnetic pickup sounds ok and is the last to feedback.
We know how to get good sound, the problem to solve is feedback.
Peavey's Feedback Ferret is a 1 rack space feedback prevention unit. Designed for PA's. About $320. Also, Sabine Solo is a small anti-feedback unit about $100, designed for single mic.
Both are effective. The Peavey has better spec's. I had good results with it cranked to ear splitting levels, with Fishman reso pickup.
If you want the best, no compromise, sky is the limit: Condenser mic on a boom-stand (cardiod or hyper cardiod), class A tube mic preamp with EQ and phantom power for the mic, feedback ferret, and then power amp/speakers.
You can control the sounds by moving the reso underneath the mic for treble, bass and volume.
A less expensive solution would be a Shure dynamic mic on a boom-stand into Peavey's new acoustic amp.
IMHO a mic mounted to the guitar picks up lots of unwanted noise from handling.
Good luck
Hope this helps.[This message was edited by Ron Randall on 10 June 2003 at 07:50 AM.] |
|
|
|
Charles French
From:
Ms.
|
Posted 10 Jun 2003 7:42 am
|
|
| Hello, this to is my first time here. I had the Fishman installed on my reso. The price of ignorance. I never knew it would be such a hassel for this pickup to be usable. I've taken my guitar to some music stores and experimented with different things and have yet to find anything that is remotely usable. No tone and feedback is horrible. I saw Norm Hamlet playing the other night and his reso sounded Great. He wasn't usin a mic and the only amp he had was his steel amp. Help. |
|
|
|
Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
|
Posted 10 Jun 2003 7:59 am
|
|
I received the Pick-up The World pickup for my dobro today. Now I only need the dobro and I'll let you all know how it works out.
(The dobro, a Flinthill with a Beard upgrade, is on it's way across the Atlantic...) |
|
|
|
Tim Tweedale
From:
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
|
Posted 10 Jun 2003 8:29 am
|
|
Thanks Randall, for your input on the matter. I did some good hands-on research yesterday, and discovered that the Feather pre-amped and through a PA actually sounds pretty good (7/10). What it does best is honestly reproduce the sound of the guts of the instrument. But the string noise (something you definitely want to hear on a dobro) isn't there at all.
To solve this, I tried two clip-on gooseneck mics yesterday; the ATM35 and Shure Beta98 both balanced condensors. Alone, they do a great job of picking up the top noises of the guitar especially picking, but they're a little thin on getting the gut sound. When I blended the mac AND the mic, then it was a true dobro sound! That felt good! The Beta98 was by far the better mic in my opinion. The ATM seemed much more twitchy and prone to feedback. The Beta98 was able to go to much higher volume (10db more than the ATM according to the sound man) and stay stable and strong. The ATM was a little bit more responsive to range (better highs and lows which is probably what made in more feedy), but the Shure just felt so sturdy.
Now about this clip-on versus stand thing: as I understand it, the stand is limiting in that it prevents you from moving around at all (unless you do it deliberately to alter your sound) making things difficult for you and your sound man. The clip-ons I tried had free floating mechanisms to keep them from vibrating with the instrument and feeding back... And I didn't find there was much top-bumping noises coming through on the clip-on, so is there really an advantage to the stand?
-Tim[This message was edited by Tim Tweedale on 10 June 2003 at 09:33 AM.] |
|
|
|
Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
|
Posted 10 Jun 2003 8:51 am
|
|
Tim,
Thanks for the info on the mics.
The boom-stand for the mic is limiting in your movement around the stage. The advantage is you control the tone, timbre, volume by how you position the guitar under the mic. Need more bass?...move toward the grill on the lower bout. Need more highs?, move toward the low center of the cover plate. Move to the tailpiece for tinkly highs. Move the geetar closer to the mic for more volume, etc. I got this idea from watching Jerry Douglas in Ft Worth. His sound thru the PA was awesome, and he would move the geetar around like I was describing. Between songs, he would change instruments, plug in to a tuner, get it just right, then unplug and stand with the geetar under the mic.
Always a tradeoff.
FYI: Read Bob Brozman's web page. You can get there from National Reso website. He talks about EQ, feedback, mics, and pickups.
|
|
|
|
Dirk B
From:
Harrisburg, MO, USA
|
Posted 10 Jun 2003 10:49 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| The clip-ons I tried had free floating mechanisms to keep them from vibrating with the instrument and feeding back... |
Where did you get these free-floating mechansims? |
|
|
|
Tim Tweedale
From:
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
|
Posted 10 Jun 2003 11:25 am
|
|
Hi Dirk,
The free-floating mechanisms are part of the gooseneck design. The mic itself sits inside a padded foamy area that it can move around in free from influence by the dobro's vibration.
Randall, it's interesting to know that Jerry Douglas is using a boomstand mic. When I saw him on TV live at the Ryman and on American Music Shop it looked like he was just plugged in through the endpin with no visible mic or magnetic pickup, and his tone STILL sounded well rounded and good!
-Tim |
|
|
|
Randy Pettit
From:
North Texas USA
|
Posted 10 Jun 2003 1:09 pm
|
|
Tim:
It's my understanding that JD uses a pickup AND a boom mike live, with a blender. I would imagine that using some signal from the electronic pickup or transducer cuts down on feedback problems from the mike. Here's a link to his website that includes his gear:
www.jerrydouglas.com/gear.cfm
|
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 13 Jun 2003 2:54 pm
|
|
| i know it's not the real pro way to go, but playing with lightly amplified acoustic pickers at low volume gigs...open mic songwriter type affairs...i plug my dobro with a lace sensor dobro pickup (no preamp) directly into the PA board and have gotten compliments on how good it sounds...however, plugging into my amp at electric gigs when i switch from steel for a tune or two, though it gets the job done, it lacks the nice warm acoustic reso tone...the louder the band, the worse the tone. |
|
|
|
Tim Tweedale
From:
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
|
Posted 24 Jun 2003 12:02 am
|
|
Hey, Steinar, how does the PUTW sound in your dobro? I now have a lace sensor and a Macintyre in my Dobro and I'm going to have them blended to a stereo endpin tomorrow. Just as a sidenote, I can't believe the lace people have the gall to call their pickup "The King of Cone Tone." It's a magnet. It sounds pretty much exactly like a Fishman Rare Earth or Sunrise. Fortunately I knew this would be the case and am just using it to add some punch to the sound. But still, just to warn anyone who might be misled.
A question to those who blend Mac & lace, what's a good stereo pre-amp to blend this signal? Also, to those who blend a mic and something else, is it possible to run a balanced mic signal out through the same output as the lace sensor? Thanks.
-Tim |
|
|
|
