help with e13

david berzansky · From: san diego

i came across this e13 in an old post and i am thrown by the d. is it lower or higher than the e? i dont know if i would know what to do with it either way. any help here would be great. i am really a c6 kinda guy but i am trying out a few different e13 tunings and havent really found one that i can really get yet so i would appreciate any advice on this particular e13 tuning and on the approach to e13 in general.
thanks guys
david b

E13th
-------
E .014
C# .017
B .020
G# .024w
E .030
D .034
B .038
G# .046

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Yes David that D is a whole tone lower than that E. It is the flat 7 of the chord.
So you can play your regular E chord than play that D note under it and you now have a E7...and a good transition to the 4th chord(A chord)..and when played with the G#;E and C# notes....that is the 13th...of the chord.(E13).
Ricky

david berzansky · From: san diego

well that was a dumb question! i realized after i read your reply that i had made a silly mistake and missread the tuning thinking that the d and e were fliped and that would have been silly now wouldnt it? sorry about that. i will put this tuning on tomorrow and fool around with it. one thing i havent had much luck with when i have tried a couple other e13 tunings is the substitutions. on c6 a very important sub (to me at least and i dont know if this even qualifies as a substitution) is the few notes that you can get seven frets up from the root position that are subs for the one chord and of course two frets up from the root position that act as the 5 chord. i know there are more but these are very basic and important to me.without those notes in the location they are in i would be lost on non pedal c6.
how about on e13? are there similar positions on the neck that let you get the same chord and allow you to be adjacent to other chords?
thanks again ricky i apreciate your reply
david b

[This message was edited by david berzansky on 16 May 2003 at 12:50 PM.]

Peter · Posted 16 May 2003 4:08 pm

David, E13th and C6th are very similar. With C6th, if you take the first four strings E-C-A-G and goto the 4th fret, you get G#-E-C#-B, which is E13 with a G# on top.

So if you take your E13th and translate it back to C6, it will look like this:

E13th
-------
E .014
C# .017
B .020
G# .024w
E .030
D .034
B .038
G# .046

C6th
--------
C
A
G
E
C
Bb (*this string is 1/2 tone up)
G

You can work things out by making a chart like this:



FRET        *


0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7


----------------------


E  F  .  G  G# A


C  .  D  .  E  F


A  .  B  C  C# D 


G  .  A  .  B  C


E  F  .  G  G#


C  .  D  .  E  F


A  .  B  C  C# D


G  .  A  .  B  C

So you see, E13th is on fret 4, but string 7 is not correct.
Tune up string 7 from A to Bb and you will get your D on the 4th fret.
I hope I did not make a mistake.

------------------
Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

In place of the "D" try an "F#" which will be pitched higher than the "E" next to it, but will give you a big sound nevertheless. By tuning it to "F#" you will hear part of a 9th chord...great for an interesting final chord on most songs.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

If the D note was not in the tuning, it would be incorrect to call it E13th. While it takes 7 notes to make a full concert 13th chord, three notes are a must. They are:

1. 13th (C#)

2. 3rd (G#)

3. 7th (D)

It is interesting to note that with the advent of the E9th PSG tuning, engaging the A pedal on an off, picking strings 5, 6 and 9; made great use of an E13th chord. No one was more adept at it, than Jimmy Day in his early years of backing singers on their recordings.

carl

david berzansky · From: san diego

hey guys
thanks for your replies. i put the tuning on and have enjoyed tinkering around on it. peter thanks for the chart and the breakdown. i do see that it is very similer now and that helps me get around a bit but i still feel very limited with getting one chord (or at least a two note chord) in different places on the neck. i am sure they are there i just havent spent that much time with the tuning yet. am i aproaching it incorrectly? i have heard some folks refer to
e13 as more of a single string work kinda tuning but i have heard it used heavy with chords as well.how do you guys use it? also when your playing western swing, how much time would you say your on e13 as opposed to c6?
george, i will try that out and get back to ya and carl , i have played that string group with the a pedal on e9 pedal steel for a while now without knowing it was a 13th chord.
thanks again guys
david b

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

David,

You might want to visit our ongoing discussions here at SGF, of chord / scale substitutions with the 6th tuning: http://www.steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/003549.html

If you simply "pretend" the b7 note of the 13th tuning does not exist, then you have the standard 6th tuning with that b7 as extra.

6th chords of the 6th tuning are sitting on one end of a 2-fret-distance DOMINANT 7 scale box, so that b7 in the 13th tuning affords that b7 note also on the triad+6 end of the box as well as in the "extension" notes at the other end of the box. Having it also in the triad end of the box allows b7 to be used in harmonies and lines along with the triad and 6th notes. That note in the tuning also affords an otherwise absent 4 note on the signature chord fret of the Maj7 box and a 3 note on it's extensions fret. It also gives you an aug5 on the "extensions" fret of the 6th dom7 box. It also affords additional exotic notes in each mode box along the neck, affording some additional "add" and passing notes in straight bar chords and arpeggios on each fret in each box.

ALOHA,
Denny T~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 23 May 2003 at 04:49 PM.]

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

David-If you want to get more C6 type chords and still be able to get the E13th when you want.
Tune the 6th string D down a half tone to C#. Now you can get most of the c6 stuff. I used to do that before pedals. When a song called for a lot of E13, which I used a lot, I just tuned my C# back up to D, but I also tuned my E a whole tone up to F#.
That gives me the 9th, which adds to the 13th. and that is a great chord.

On my D8 I put that on my top neck and E6 on the bottom neck. On the top neck tuning when a song called for it, I tuned the 2nd string C# to D. That gave me a lot of versatility and still no pedals.
You can be more versatile with a non pedal if you change the tunings slightly for different type songs.

I was glad to get pedals so I didn't have to do that anymore, so I used the pedals to change the chord structure....al






E    E    E         E


C#   C#   D         C#


B    B    B         B


G#   G#   G#        G#


E    F#   F#        E


D    D    D         C#


B    B    B         B


G#   G#   G# or E   G#





1,   2.   3.        4.





1. E7-E13


2. E7-E9-E13


3. E7-E9-Bmin6-Ddim


4. E6-c#min7

So you can see just by changing one or two notes , you can change the whole tuning.

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 25 May 2003 at 08:48 AM.]

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