Versatility of 8-string C6th

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

I don't know anything about the 8-string C6th tuning, so don't flame me for asking this

But, I'm thinking of acquiring an 8-string lap steel. I know that the C6th tuning is used to play jazz, swing, hawiian. But, I was wondering if the 8-string non-pedal C6th tuning is equally adaptable to playing more bluesy stuff (rock, blues, some bluegrass, etc.) or would this be done more easily with a different tuning? Thanks for you input

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 10 March 2003 at 10:02 AM.]

Bob Stone · From: Gainesville, FL, USA

Welcome to the legion of steel guitarists who are constantly in some kind of tuning quest.

Theoretically, you can play any style of music on C6. Certainly it is one of the most versatile tunings. You might listen to Junior Brown (he uses a 7th on the bottom which technically makes it a C13 chord) for some samples of blues as well as Hawaiian and classic country.

That said, I keep a major chord tuning on my D8 Stringmaster for blues and rock and play just about everything else on the C6 (actually C13) neck. I'll often play the jazzier blues--especially those that contain minor or sixth chords--on the C6 neck.

Bluegrass? It's my experience (I'll probably hear about this) that only the most adventerous "progressive bluegrass" groups would invite an electric steel. Most want an acoustic reso. In my mind (I'll hear about this too), it won't really sound like bluegrass unless it's G tuning.

Maybe Mark from Blueground Undergrass will chime in.

Armed with the above info plus that which should follow for other Forumites, you can present to your significant other an excellent case for buying more instruments!

Go forth and explore tunings--and instruments.

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

or, you can tune to G6.....

E G B D E G B D.....low to high

Now you've got the bluegrass G tuning with a sixth, and if you tune the E to F, you've got a dom 7th in there.

Of course now you're probobly more confused about which tuning to pick. Welcome to the wonderful wacky world of steel guitar.

It took me 4 years just to decide which tuning to use....I like C6/A7, but that's another thread.....

Andy Alford · Posted 10 Mar 2003 11:54 am

You may like
G
E
C
A
G
E
C
A

Ralph H. Moorehead · From: Las Vegas, Nv. Clark

I like Andy Alford's tuning. G on top. I get about everything I want with it. It is permanent on my top neck . The bottom neck I experiment with. Never been satisfied with any tuning but C 6th.

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

You could combine two of Jeff's C6 tuning suggestions and come up with with this C13:

G
E
C
A
G
E
C
Bb

Jr. Brown use's this one on his Guitsteel.

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 11 March 2003 at 08:27 AM.]

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Thanks very much to everyone who has replied thus far -- I truly appreciate the info

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

ok, I'll suggest C6/A7 on this thread. I like this tuning very much and use the 7 string version invented by Jerry Byrd.

here's an 8 string version:

A C C# E G A C E low to high

Peter · Posted 11 Mar 2003 11:52 am

Here is a thought:
Tune it to E9:
---------------------------
E
B
G#
F#
E
D
B
G#
----------------------------
Then tune down the E's to Eb.
This will give you a B6?.
Eb
B
G#
F#
Eb
D
B
G#
----------------------------
Or tune up the B's a whole tone to C#
ANd tune up the G# a half tone to A.
This will give you a Dobro type open A tuning?.
E
C#
A
F#
E
D
C#
A
---------------------------
Maybe there are tuning keys modifiers that can quickly change the tuning like on some b@njos.
If you drop this tuning a whole tone to D, it is easier to see the Dobro tuning.

------------------
Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

oh heck Tom, just get a pedal steel and have it all....

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Peter · Posted 11 Mar 2003 9:20 pm

Ooooops!
Sorry!

------------------
Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

There's a train of thought that says you should be well versed in various tunings and use one most appropriate to the style you're working with, Jerry Byrd being the king of that approach. With all of the various constraints on our time and energy, it seems more effective to me to find a comfortable tuning and learn it really well. Personally, I think the standard or modified C6 to be the most useful tuning for 8 string non pedal. There are endless pentatonics and sliding scales and pockets that are easy to find, and fit great into a bluegrass idiom, as well as all kinds of blues, rock, swing and jazz. (A good C6 lap through a fat distortion pedal will put a hurt on a lead guitarist in a second!) That being said, I think standard E9 pedal tuning gives a lot more to work with in a bluegrass context, the generally basic diatonic progressions of bluegrass tunes siting well on that setup. Bluegrass style tunes recorded by the likes of Jimmy Crawford, Doug Jernigan, and BE (Osborne Brothers, yeah!) should be enough to convince anyone that E9 Pedal can FLY in Bluegrass. The predjudices toward a "dobro" sound and style are probably rooted in the desire for a basically acoustic vibe, and the banjo-derivitive stylings of Josh Graves (which I find brilliant, BTW!). If you want the sounds of Hammer-ons and Pull-offs, that's the way to go. I have seen guys out on the road who played a very traditional reso style on bluegrass tunes, and then turned around and threw down deep rockin' blues funk on the same tuning. My sugggestion would be to forge your own style based on what fits musically to you, and not get hung up on emulating traditional Dobro style playing, unless you want to play Dobro! These days more and more bluegrass groups seem to be open to the idea of adding electric steel to the mix. Some of the most memorable road gigs with BGUG for me were the great jams with Vassar, Del McCoury's band, Sam Bush, Peter Wernick... a purist might not have called it trad. grass, but we sure had a blast!

------------------
C'mon by and visit!- www.markvanallen.com

My Band: www.sugarlandmusic.com

[This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 12 March 2003 at 12:25 AM.]

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Once again, thanks to everyone for their input.

Mark -- thanks for your thoughtful insight. It seems that the general feeling is that the C6th (including some close variations thereof) is versatile enough to pretty much play anything, and I think Mark you pretty much sealed the case tightly shut

Scott -- I appreciate your input, and I agree that the ability, creativeness, and technical expertise of the player goes an awfully long way and that a great player can play great music regardless of the tuning used.

But, at the same time, it seems to me that the fact that there are different tunings out there, plus the fact that very good players do use various tunings is evidence that the particular tuning does have at least some impact on the sound and style of the music being played -- otherwise it seems that everyone would use one tuning or the same tuning

I guess I asked my original question because, being unfamiliar with the 8-string lap steel, and knowing that there were several different and well-known tunings out there, I was curious of whether I would be having to change from one tuning to another to get a particular sound or feeling.

But, from the comments above, it appears that I can rest assured that the C6th has plenty of versatility.

Thanks again to everyone -- great posts and info!!

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Again, Tom, it does depend on your final intent, for instance, someone who really wants to develop a swampy blues style or would be playing only blues and rock might be better served by an E7 tuning with a root on the bottom. I think C6 is the way to go for people playing in various styles who want to cover as much ground as possible. Try to get a look at the Arlen Roth lap Steel video- his playing is a bit rudimenatry and unconventional (no fingerpicks!) but he does a fantastic job of illustrating the variations in sound and potential beween several tunings, from a 6 string player's perspective. Good luck!

------------------
C'mon by and visit!- www.markvanallen.com

My Band: www.sugarlandmusic.com

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

No one tuning handles every genre of music equally well. While great players can sound great on just about any tuning, there are advantegous to some tunings over others based on the style you want to, play.

C6th is my main tuning and can easily cover a lot of rock, blues, swing, jazz and other styles. If I want to play a lot of very rich, close voiced dominant chords however, in say, a rockabilly or jump blues tune, then E13th would be my choice. If I wanted a very lush, throaty dominant chord sound than B11th might be best. C6th offers mostly 3 note dominant voicings but for melodic single string work, and perfect layout of scales, thirds and 6ths, C6th is hard to beat IMHO - Especially with a C-Bb-C on the bottom in the 8-string version.

Terry Farmer · From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

Tom,
Here's the tuning I use to back up my son-in-law when he's playing his banjo. This tuning allows an easy 1-5 alternating bass on the bottom two strings.

G
E
C
A
G
E
C
G

You can tune the guitar anyway you want to. The main thing to remember is to have fun!

Todd Weger · From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA

Hey Tom -- I play a Stringmaster T-8, and for me, I prefer the Hawaiian C13 tuning Mr. Au Hoy uses (h-l: E-C-A-G-E-C-Bb-C). This is on my inside neck, and the one I use most. I sometimes will tune that Bb down to A, depending on what I want.

For my middle neck, I use an E13 (h-l: E-C#-G#-F#-D-B-G#-E) for jazzy stuff. If I feel inclined, I sometimes will tune the C# to B, and the F# to E, for an open E7 chord. This works great for straight-on blues stuff.

Typically though, if I want to play a more delta-style blues, I'll use my A6 neck, tuned (h-l) E-C#-A-F#-E-C#-A-F#, and just avoid the 4th and 8th strings when playing chord strums and stabs. I can get a pretty convincing sounding slide guitar sound using single note runs, and double-stops.

In any case, if you have just one neck, a 6th type tuning with a 5th on top might give you the most flexibility that way.

Anyway, just my .02 -- YMMV!

TJW

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Todd James Weger/RD/RTD
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, E13); Melobar SLS lapsteel (open D); Chandler RH-4 Koa semi-hollow lapsteel (open G); Regal resonator (open D or G)

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