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Topic: Why I use Mu-Sym-Tab (#'s b's) in my courses. |
Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 29 Nov 2005 8:39 am |
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I recently received a nice letter from a steel player/steel teacher, who purchased one of my Shuffles, Ballads, and Waltzes courses. He allowed as how the arrangements were excellent but he had some problems with the tab system I use to explain the playing.
I've had a couple people, very few really, in the past who've mentioned the same thing. So, by way of explanation, I post my reply to him below, and I invite comments from the Forum.
"Dear ____
Thanks for your compliments on my arrangements. Please allow me to respond to your comments and critique.
Once the player recognizes the symbols on each string, the tab format is really simple and easy to understand, since the symbols are really only what the pedals do to the strings in question. For example, pedal "A" raises strings 5 and 10 two half-steps, so the symbol is "##" instead of "A." I realize that "A" is what you're used to, but that's only because you're a creature of habit, like we all are in different areas of life.
After a couple of minutes of concentration, once you see a # sign on string 3, is there any doubt that you should push pedal 2, pedal B, or whatever you want to call it? Likewise the other pedal/string combinations.
Why I went to the symbols I use, basically designed by Jimmie Crawford and Winnie Winston in their "Mu-Sym-Tab" tab system, is that in my own teaching I found that new students that came to me didn't know what the pedals were doing when they pushed them, so they really didn't understand the musical principles behind them. They were only pushing the pedals as they were told to do, like robots.
When I'd ask "okay, what does that pedal do to the string you just picked?," they'd answer "I dunno, I'm just supposed to push that pedal, right?"
When I'd then ask, "well, what note was it before you pushed the pedal, and what note is it now?" The response was "I dunno. Does it matter?"
As Charlie Brown in "Peanuts" would say, "Good grief!!  "
IMHO this is not the way to teach someone to learn and understand the instrument, only to mimic what physical movements the "demonstrator" is showing. I use the term "demonstrator" because without the understanding of what notes get changed and why, real teaching and therefore real learning does not take place. This is not to say that what the pedals do can't be taught with the old system {A, B, etc.), but the reinforcement of seeing #'s and b's gives the repetition necessary for instant understanding and recognition. Repetition is necessary not only for physical movements, but also for intellectual understanding of the music.
There was recently a thread on this very topic on the Forum in the Tablature section.
I've had only a very few criticisms of my tab in the past, mostly having to do with timing and phrasing, not with recognition of the symbols. Those that have had doubts about my system but gave it some time to get used to it, after hearing my reasoning behind it and that it was developed by noted educators Winston and Crawford, have told me their understanding of the guitar and musical theory was greatly improved. So I think that my going to Winnie and Jimmie's system ultimately was a good thing for the instrument."
If you can keep them civil and serious , y'all's thoughts, please?
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 29 November 2005 at 08:55 AM.] |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2005 9:18 am
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quote:
IMHO this is not the way to teach someone to learn and understand the instrument, only to mimic what physical movements the "demonstrator" is showing. I use the term "demonstrator" because without the understanding of what notes get changed and why, real teaching and therefore real learning does not take place. This is not to say that what the pedals do can't be taught with the old system {A, B, etc.), but the reinforcement of seeing #'s and b's gives the repetition necessary for instant understanding and recognition. Repetition is necessary not only for physical movements, but also for intellectual understanding of the music.
That paragraph Herb just wrote; should be on every steel guitar teacher's wall.
That right there is the difference in just plain ole Tab and Teaching the steel guitar.
Herb is a true born Teacher; as opposed to just jotting something down on paper.
Explaination is everything Man....and Herb does it all too well.
Good going my Brother.
Ricky |
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Marco Schouten
From:
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Posted 29 Nov 2005 10:46 am
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I can only say that one gets used to Herb's system in just a few minutes.
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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud LLG; Guyatone 6 string lap steel; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Evans SE200 amp
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John Bresler R.I.P.
From:
Thornton, Colorado
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Posted 29 Nov 2005 5:29 pm
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I'd agree with Marco. In a matter of minutes I figured what the # and ##, etc. meant. By the way there's some great Jimmy Day sounds in the "Shuffles, Ballads, and Waltzes course. Good stuff, Herb. Keep em' coming.
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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John Bresler R.I.P.
From:
Thornton, Colorado
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Posted 30 Nov 2005 7:53 am
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Herb:
Yes!!!! That is one pretty song and you play it so great!! Looking forward to the next one. Thanks much Herb.
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John McGann
From:
Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Nov 2005 7:19 pm
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I am a big fan of this system, but I prefer it used WITH standard notation to see the big picture. Standard notation gives you the pitches and rhythms, same as any other instrument. The Mus-M-Tab gives you the big picture of exactly what the "changes" on the steel do to the strings.
Right on, Herb!
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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...
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Colm Chomicky
From:
Kansas, (Prairie Village)
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Posted 1 Dec 2005 6:32 pm
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| I have two of your courses. I like the Mu-Sym-Tab with your courses. |
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Michael Pierce
From:
Madison, CT
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Posted 6 Dec 2005 7:23 am
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| Herb, I just received your Shuffles, Ballads, Waltzes E9 course yesterday and was able to spend a few minutes with it this morning. The # and b notation system was easy to figure out (even with me being a newbie), although I admit to occasionally reaching for the "B" pedal when confronted with the "b" lever symbol on the 4th and 8th strings. I did have one question, though, about the hash or hyphen marks that follow a particular note... wasn't sure if that indicated a rest or a sustain (it may be explained in the literature and I simply haven't read it thoroughly yet). Thanks, Herb, I very much look forward to playing through this. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 6 Dec 2005 8:58 am
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Michael, et al.
My tab system is still a "work in progress."  I'm exploring different ways to communicate timing issues, other than "listen to the way I played it on the CD!"
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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John Coffman
From:
Wharton,Texas USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2006 10:28 am
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After you explained it to me it made sense. Yes it makes you think and the more you thing and add to your skills the easy it will become. I also makes me see the whole process of how the songs are put together. IMO. I would add a spot on your web site giving good directions and post a page in each of the courses is all I feel you can do. Some people just can not accept change. I feel if we were all alike and all did things the same it would be a very boring world. Herb I hope you continue to give use great instructional material. Best of Luck
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Thomas SD10 3/4 and D10 8/5 Beginner
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 22 Jan 2006 11:02 am
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John
Thanks for your excellent suggestion about the tab explanation and a sample page being on the website. I'm gonna get together with the fellow that does my website design and come up with that very thing. Good thinking!
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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John Bresler R.I.P.
From:
Thornton, Colorado
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Posted 22 Jan 2006 3:14 pm
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Herb:
A small chord chart at the bottom of the page might help us BIAB users. It's almost there now. I don't have to make many changes when I enter your songs. Keep the good stuff coming!!
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James Sission
From:
Sugar Land,Texas USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2006 12:33 pm
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| At first, I was a little confused by the tabs. But when I really studied them, I found out that it teaches a great deal more than tabs with the pedals indicated under the changes. It stimulates the mind to focus on what you did to create a voicing. It made me more aware of why I was making the changes. I like the system pretty well now, in fact, when I got my second course, I was right at home with it. Herb, Together Again is really awesome, thanks...James [This message was edited by James Sission on 24 January 2006 at 12:34 PM.] [This message was edited by James Sission on 24 January 2006 at 12:35 PM.] |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2006 8:04 pm
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| Hi Herb, I must admit that when your courses arrived I was apprehensive about havin to learn a new tab method after thumbin through the first volume and seein those new symbols for the pedals and I remember thinkin what's wrong with usin A,B and C for the pedal symbols, but once I started in and realized what was really happening on the strings attached to each pedal it started to sink in and I saw the logic in your method. By the second or third practice session I hardly had to think about which pedal to use and it made me learn what each pedal is really doin. I have both volumes of "Swinging on E9" and am lookin forward to ordering your other courses. Thanks for creating those great courses. |
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Frank Bresee
From:
Mount Forest Ontario Canada
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Posted 30 Jan 2006 7:26 pm
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I cannot tell you how much I am enjoying your "Shuffles,Ballads & Waltzes" The arrangements are perfect for those of us who need the confidence necessary to achieve progress.
Please let me know when your new one with mainly ballads is ready.....
Bravo!
Frank Bresee.
Carter S-10 |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2006 6:29 pm
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Herb is right on. I started with someone elses tabs that were the A,B,C, style beside the number on the string to be played -- then I got some with the notation under each line - then I bought one of Herb's. I was confused for only about one or two times through and yes it makes you understand better in spit of trying to learn from tabs. I feel that if you pay attention to Herb's, et al method it does help you to pick up the tone from CD's or whatever quicker. That's what we all are going for any way. Thanks Herb for making us think ----- it does not hurt for long. Just keep on keepin' on -----
Steel-less in Phoenix
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Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix)Desert Rose Guitar, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Association
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