Question for Jody Carver, other Fender Gurus

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Hi

I've always been curious about the Fender pedal steels that emerged in the 1950's (400, 800, etc.). I've always blindly assumed that those guitars were intended as an improvement over the non-pedal steels--they were the next evolution in the Fender lineage.

But those pedal steels didn't have a trapazoid pickup...neither did they have a double pickup arrangement like on the Stringmasters...they had something completely different. Is there a story behind the choice of pickup for the Fender pedal steels? Stringmasters are considered by many to be the most versatile steels in history. Is there a reason Fender didn't continue with the double pickups?

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Jeff
Excellent question! The first Fender pedal guitars had Jazzmaster-style pickups.

Jody, whassup wi' DAT?

And, what part did Al Petty and Gene Fields have in the design of the Fender pedal guitars?

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Jeff
Thank you for the introduction as you're regarding me as a "Guru". I am far from that
honor,I was only a salesman and not an engineer or a designer,nor did I work in R&D.

There was no R&D at Fender early on. Leo was
the man,he would of course ask questions of
the players as for advice and preference as to what they thought of this or that,but by far and large you could not call this R&D.

I beleive Leo's theory was to go to the players and not to the engineers which is the norm today. And I think that was the best
approach. Why not ask the people who will play the instrument rather than someone who is looking at cost factor and how many can we
sell. Sure thats important,but more important
was,what can we manufacture that will sell to the most discriminating musician?.n this instance a "steel guitarist".

Since ALL of my replies are lengthy I will not try to set a new record wuth your question. I'll try to touch on a few and let those who have had a 1000 or or a 400 answer
as to what they liked or disliked about the Fender pedal guitars.

Your question was I beleive was this the next
evolution into the then limited amount of pedal steel guitars? and the answer has to be
Yes. We all agreed that this indeed would be foremost in pedal guitar design.

Why else would Leo Fender have taken on the task to build a pedal guitar.

I was not an engineer,I was seventeen years old when I went to work for Fender,I quit High School in spite of my mother and fathers
being very unhappy with my choice. I later went
back and took a course and finished HS.

My first feeling was to have what I thought would be the ultimate pedal steel. That was
a pedal guitar that had the sound that most
players were attracted to that Fender Sound.

My thoughts were to have a guitar that would be such as a Stringmaster but with pedals.
To have the pickup design such as the tone
blender feature,that was a great sounding pickup design and till today as you know is regarded as one of,if not the best innovations that Leo Fender contributed to the steel guitar.

The other choice would be what you refer to as "trapazoid" which was then reffered to as
"direct strings through pickups".

I do agree that,this was the sound I had hoped the 1000 would incorporate.
The same with the split pickup design on the
stringmaster guitars. To my ears that was what I expected,,a non pedal sound and features such as the Stringmaster or and the Custom.

It is easy to critisize what was designed back then,second guessing is easy.The reason
Leo designed the pickups for the pedal guitar
is that he wanted something different to offer the steel guitar players. This was Leo
Fenders way of doing things. He was re-designing as what he had already designed to
make further improvements as to what he already had designed as being the best.

He would never stop looking and researching and listening to steel players who would offer suggestions and then he would weigh all the ideas of the players and add what he
felt was the best of the best.

Many times it would drive me crazy as well as
the other Fender salesman,no sooner that a product was introduced Leo was then making upgrades to further improve what he just designed. We never knew what was coming next.

Many times he would ask me this and that.I would listen and give him my opinion.He appreciated everyone's opinion even if he dis
agreed.

For anyone to second guess Leo Fender and what went through his mind would be a fool to try. There are many who today can take issue with what and why this and that?, I can only add this,they would have had to have been there to see and think of how Leo
Fender conducted his business.

I doubt other than Dale Hyatt and Tom Walker
both Fender originals could offer the reason
for the question you asked. I have my own opinions and to be honest,I myself expected
somewhat of a Stringmaster with pedals and not what was designed as such, but thats my opinion. Other than Dale & Tom Walker and myself,we are the only Original Fender salesman left,the others are gone. There were
eight salesman covering the United States.

Leo felt that the square box jazzmaster pickup design although different sound was
most practical.His thoughts may have bordered
on "why put the Stringmaster pickups on a pedal guitar?" when I can introduce a completly new and fresh design.

The one thing I thought was great was the Al-Mag frame,that was Leo's idea long before cabinet drop was ever heard of.Back then we
all knew that the tremendous amount of pressure that would be put on a guitar would cause any pedal guitar to go out of tune for the reason I stated. His al-mag frame was a great improvement over anything ever designed
and I really liked the chrome look as opposed to the "matte black" finish it was changed to later on.

This was done as many players had complaints
from TV technicians that the al-mag frame was
causing a "glare" so that ended the chrome
or aluminum look.

I have no futher answers regarding why Leo Fender didnt continue with the pickups as the
Stringmaster incorporated nor the trapezoid
pickups. I do believe and have always belived
that the Stringmaster pickups would have been
my choice over what the pedal guitars were in
its final design had.

Speedy offered his suggestions, I offered my ideas, but only when we were asked.

To get into Leo Fenders head was like me running against George W. for president,there was no way.Leo was what he was and never tried to impress anyone with the exception of the musicians he loved so much. For them he would do anything and for
the most part I think he accompolished that.

When I get into technical questions such as you asked,I am not nearly as knowledgeable
as many others on this Forum and I can name
a few. They have knowledge that I will never
have,they can find and answer technical questions by far better than I.

The only thing I can offer is that I had the
opportunity of knowing Leo Fender and for that I am proud and grateful to have had that chance that many would have loved to have had.I had one advantage over most of the salesman.I was the only steel player and Leo liked my long stories and New York accent.

Maybe I should consider touching very lightly
on issues that you brought up in my book if I dont die before its finished.

I want to add,that if Joey Ace had not asked me to reply to your question I more than likely would not have,meaning no dispespect to you Jeff but my stories are long and I have to agree with those who feel that way.

I hope in some small way this information will answer your question.

Thank you my friend. I want to add that Alvino Rey offered many suggestions to Leo and who better knew about pedal guitars than
Alvino Rey?

One thing I can say is that Leo loved the sound of a treble pickup,the more treble the
better,he loved that "cutting edge" that gave the Fender its unique sound.

That's why Richard Smith titled his book
"Fender The Sound Heard Round The World" how could anyone mistake a Fender by comparison to other guitars etc?. There were many times
my ears hurt when Leo would turn the volume
up full on and crank the treble and say,well
how'd ya like that there Jody??. I couldnt answer because I couldn't hear him..the treble had me mumified.

Jody

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 23 February 2003 at 11:55 AM.]

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Herb
I can answer that later or at least I can try
but I think Gene Fields can offer first hand the part he played in that role.

As for Al Petty,yes he played a major role in many issues with regard to design features
etc etc.

I'm not certain Gene was invloved with the 1000 and 400 and 800 models and if so to what degree I dont really know.

I can only say..it was a fine guitar for the
time and my personal preference was the Blonde and not the Sunburst..Black with the Al-mag frame in natural chrome would be my first choice..or maybe a toss up between blonde or black

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 23 February 2003 at 10:17 AM.]

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

Jody, would I be incorrect in assuming Alvino Rey might have had some influence on the design, etc., of the Fender pedal guitars ? He certainly played a big part in introducing the old original Gibson pedal guitars. Just a thought. Hey, I thought this was a NO PEDDLER site....(?)

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

It was George until someone added some pedals

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

The Fender Pedal Steels and Non-Pedal Steels always seemed like they were made by different companys to me. (and I'm not talking about the Sho-Bud made Fenders)

Everythings different,body/electronics/sound. I always wondered why.

This is great topic.

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

I recall the picture of a Fender 1000 that I saw in one publication (can't remember where), that had Stringmaster pickups on both necks,___the early chrome cover type. Can anyone varify this?

Rick

R. L. Jones · From: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA

A friend was telling me today that he had an old Fender guitar,made in 1952. I cant remember the name,but the one built before the Stratocaster. may be worth something??

R.L.

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Joey
Everything pertaining to Fender Steel guitars were designed and manufactured in house. There were NO others involved other than Leo Fender,Freddy Tavares,Forrest White etc. Why are you wondering? what makes you have the opinion that Fender had other sources of manufacturing?

If there were any inconsistencies you are addressing,it was due to Leo making changes in mid stream.

I said quote above that Leo was always changing designs and adding and taking away
features from one day to the next,well I am
exaggerating a bit,,a better description would be week to week.

Again for what is worth,EVERY STEEL GUITAR with the exception of the Sho Bud steel guitars were made in one place by the same people day to day. week to week. year to year...
and that was in Fullerton California and NO WHERE ELSE and by the same few that did all the preparation and assembly were employed for years by Fender.

When CBS took ownership,many devoted employees were let go. CBS was NOT keen on steel guitar related products and had NO interest in carrying on with steel guitars.

CBS kept the steel guitar production to an
absolute minimum and would only manufacture them if a 100 or more orders came in for steel guitars.

I have stated this before,CBS put all the budget finances into the Fender Rhodes Piano
project, and although it is not relevant to this thread,CBS deleted the name "Fender" from the Rhodes piano,thus re-naming it "Rhodes". They wanted to market the Rhodes into special market piano outlets where specialized sales people could better
merchandise the product.

This raised holy hell among the Fender dealers as they promoted Fender Rhodes pianos and here CBS was taking something from them.

I was NOT in favor of CBS taking this stance
I felt that a Fender dealer was entitled to
having ALL Fender products bearing the name
Fender.

Other companies practiced this procedure and
I didnt want to see Fender follow suit.

Gibson had a Gibson "authorized dealer" and
in the same breath had an Epiphone "authorized dealer" I thought this was unfair to market in this manner.

The target was to start a dealer off with Epiphone and eventually promote the Epi dealer to Gibson and vice versa.

With all due respect to Gibson during that time, I refused to split the Fender line down the middle. If you were a Fender dealer
you were entitled to anything and everything
Fender had in its product line.

I had to take issue with the "suits" at CBS
but the end result was,my original plan that was set by Fender pre CBS was carried
out as before the takeover.

ONE MORE TIME,,FENDER designed and manufactured everything from bridges to fret
boards to pickups etc etc,the cases were purchased from an outside source.
Thats the end of the story and I hope this answers your question and removes all doubt as to what you have posted.

When are you coming back here,?? I'll have 200 meatballs waiting for you

and btw
all the meatballs and accesories are made right here in Milford PA

L8R as John Bechtel would say. Hi John

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 23 February 2003 at 10:09 PM.]

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

RL,,more than likley that would be the "ESQUIRE" guitar.and or Telecaster ? and if so either is worth a good amount of money if it is in original condition.

I think you are pulling my leg

Rick,,if you saw what you claim you saw,I wont dispute that,but I can assure you it was NOT stock from Fender,it had to be after
market,you make a copy and send that to me.

You guys amaze me. Beleive what I'm quoting
here, I have been with Fender since 1949.

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

I'm right here, Jody; and in spite of my old age, your posts always contain a wealth of information! Poor me, I've only received one E-Mail all day, (Smiley); but this gives me a chance to catch up on these interesting topics! I can't usually add any new facts to these topics, but; I can learn a lot and, I'd better just stick to trying to apply my knowledge to my playing! L8R, "Uh~" http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels
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[This message was edited by John Bechtel on 23 February 2003 at 10:28 PM.]

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Jody,

Thanks so much for these replies! As with all of your posts, I've been sitting here the whole time, on the floor, legs crossed, eyes wide, just soaking it all in. I consider myself so priveleged.

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Hi Jeff
I thought you disappeared and left me here with all these guys jumpin on me. Jeff is that you sittin on the floor? my you look so young.

John,,man these guys are kiiling me,do they
not have respect for their elders ??

Hey take my word for it,,this is the deal.

Joey I'll catch up to you

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 23 February 2003 at 10:12 PM.]

Andy Alford · Posted 24 Feb 2003 5:06 am

Jody

Keep your class going.We are listening and learning the truth about FENDER.

Bob Stone · From: Gainesville, FL, USA

Thanks a million, Jody.

VERY interesting.

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

I'll be sending report cards to your wives and mothers. Study, there is more to come when I finish writing this book.

But with all you guys asking questions..how
can I finish ??

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

R. L. Jones · From: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA

Jody ,I would never do that to you . No ,this friend, from Cajun country,has a Fender Esquire, made in 1952. It is not all original, He didnt know the importance,of leaving it in it`s original condition.

He was here last night ,telling me he was refinishing it. Iknow that diminishes the value of these collector pieces, He did buy it new, played in a band most of his life. He still has a band, but also builds guitars now

nice talking at you Jody .I know you are like me ,but try to stay out of trouble

R.L

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

RL
Your friend's Esquire was worth a good sum of money,he was foolish to refinish it.

I dont want to hurt your friends feelings but he has de-preciated the amount of money
that guitar is worth to a collector. Oh well its only money and as long as he is happy thats all that counts..

I'll e mail you your report card

Take care my friend.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

What is that picture that teacher is showing those kids?....Someone better call the vice squad!

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Gene
The picture is XXX rated porno

A GIBSON GUITAR

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Jody!?

It's actually an early Fender diagram explaining how the changer mechanism works. The boy in the white sweater asked if it was really possible that a person could strum a C6 and a D7#5#9 on a single neck. The girl sitting beside him in the pink commented shortly thereafter that she felt the abandonment of the double pickup/blend control arrangement was a grave misjudgement on Fender's part.

* * * * *

I was interested in Herb Steiner's earlier observation that the pedal steels had Jazzmaster-type pickups (that's the bass, right?). I've always liked the tone of these guitars (the pedal steels, that is) and was curious to have a non-pedal made with one of these pickups... but I wasn't quite sure of exactly what they are. Does anybody have the specific stats on these? <

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 25 February 2003 at 02:35 PM.]

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Aloha Jeff..
I'll get back to you L8TR with the details of the fender 1000-2000 pickups.. or maybe Jody can help.
Baz www.waikiki-islanders.com

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