Slanting the bar

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

In several other current threads, mention is made of slanting the bar and how a certain player rarely if ever slants. This is very true. I do not EVER recall seeing Don Helms slant the bar. I am told he did, and also one poster said he did it on several named recordings. So be it.

It appears as I think back over the evolution of the lap steel guitar that lap steel players tend to fall into basically 1 of 3 groups:

1. Those that never slant

2. Those that ocassionaly slant.

3. Those that slant often.

Western swing players generally fall into the first case, more or less.

Dobro players generally fall into the second case more or less.

Hawaiian type and "Popular" players generally fall into the 3rd case.

There is a reason for all three cases IMO. I will explain.

Western swing players tend to play a lot of big chord "notes". IE, every note is a chord in practical terms. Tom Morrell is a case in point. EVEN, when they don't play full chords, they play the "positions" where the chord in all likely hood is found. Don Helms is a prime example of this. I will talk about this further on in this post.

Dobro players tend to favor the "stevens" type bar. As such this bar does NOT lend itself to the highly versatile and often fast "slanting" that is so easy to do with a round bar. Also, the "steven" type slanters often use the entire hand to accomplish slants, instead of just using the fingers. Thus the slants are rarely used for sustain; rather it is used just to get the next notes in a passage of music. The late Bashful Brother Oswald was an example of this.

Jerry Bryd of course, is the master of the 3rd type of slanting. He also is the world's absolute master at the "split slant" (as he calls it). IE, two strings straight while the 3rd string is slanted.

Now, it is here where the use of the slant really tends to "identify" the type of music one is playing. The following is a prime example of what I mean:

C6 tuning. (E on Top) Key of G

1. Bar at the 14th fret picking strings 2 and 3 or the 3rd and 5th tones of the G chord. B and D.

2. Slide and slant the bar up to the 16th and 15th frets respectively; and get the next major 3rd notes typical in music. In this case C and E.

This movement soooooo often done by Hawaiian and "popular" style players is fluid and "sustains" the musical passage. And so typifies how JB plays.

On the other hand, western swing players and many Dobro players will rarely EVER do this. Rather; they will simply:

1. Mute the strings after picking strings 2 and 3 at the 14th fret.

2. Move the bar back to the 12th fret and get the next major 3rd, by picking strings 1 and 2.

Don Helms did this almost exclusively when he backed HW. So do western swing players do this almost all the time. Dobro players fit somewhere in between. On the other hand players like JB, rarely ever does this.

In summation, the slant (or lack thereof)tends to identify the type of steel guitar playing one is doing; more or less. If you are a new player to lap-steel, listen for this distinguishing aspect when you are hearing lap steel played in various types of music.

And by all means learn to do both. Unless you are content to play only one type. There is basically nothing wrong with this. JB and DH, et al, have made lifetime careers out of doing it only one way. But I still believe it might be better if one learned both ways.

God bless TM, BBO, DH, and JB, plus all the other lap steelers, and ALL of you,

carl

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Thank you Carl. Your threads and posts are not only a great help in improving one's playing, but more importantly, improving one's THINKING.

Instructional videos by various artists - approx. $39.50

Carl Dixon's insight - priceless

[This message was edited by HowardR on 12 January 2003 at 11:08 AM.]

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Nicely said, Howard.

Thanks for the details on slants...... Much appreciated. It still amazes this old timer how many folks look at bar slants as the greatest dread on earth. A shame....

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Carl, could you elaborate a bit more on the "split slant" technique please? I'm not familiar with this. How would this be accomplished? Would you "pull" the middle string behind the bar, or split the intonation between two adjacent strings? Thanks.

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

Carl, that is one of the best explanations I've heard yet. I'm sticking your stuff in my note book...! Thank you

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Yes Tom,

Be happy to. The "split slant" appears at first to be impossible. But Jerry Byrd and others proved this not to be the case at all. Here is an example of two of Jerry's favorites:

1. Strings 1 and 2 at the 12th fret, and string 4 at the 11th fret. (D9th chord)

2. Stings 2 and 3 at the 14th fret and string 5 at the 13th fret. (G7th chord)

You can see it more clearly by using the C6th standard tuning (E on top):

E
C
A
G
E
C

with the split slants it looks like the following (picked strings in bold):

E
C
A
F#
E
C

F#
D
B
A
F
D

Now the big question? HOW did JB and others do this with a straight bar?

You simply make use of the rounded nose of the bar. So you slant the bar in such a manner that you obtain the bottom slanting strings; then the rounded part (or nose) of the bar catches the top string as though it were not slanted at all.

Jerry says that you have to experiment with different size AND bullet shaped bars to make the slant true.

Interesting bit of trivia. For 40 years I could always get the D9th type slant perfect. I could NEVER get the G7th type slant to sound right. UNTIL my dear friend Garland Nash showed me a clever little trick a fews years back. He said to press the bar down on the "middle" string, in this slant, so it sharpens that string just enough to pull it in tune. Blew my mind. Then I saw JB do it. And that is precisely what he did. All those years I never noticed Jerry doing it.

"Ya live and learn"

Good luck, and God bless you in your quests,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 January 2003 at 11:59 AM.]

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 January 2003 at 12:03 PM.]

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

Carl: You have surely made my day a fine one !! The only problem now is I don't want to read anything else....

My cup runneth over and I have you to thank !!

Regards, Paul

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

To follow up on "split slants", Jerry does another type slant which is almost impossible to do with pedals. And it IS a "SPLIT the difference" type of slant. You can hear this slant often on his "Admirable Byrd" ablum where he tries to emulate (as best as one can) the sounds of the E9th PSG.

At times the chord is almost dissonent but with JB, it sounds ok. In fact one that he does often on his diatonic tuning sounds EVEN better than the "V7 to I chord" resolve on a PSG using the B pedal and the knee lever that lowers the 4th string a half a tone picking strings 4, 5 and 6.

Jerry makes use of a 1/4 tone note; or there abouts. The following is an example (picked notes in bold):

E
B
C
A
G (raised a quarter tone)
F
F

Note: this won't work when using the regular C6th tuning. It will sound just like the notes on a PSG in this case. Also notice he HAS those notes without slanting! But the sound he gets using the "split the difference" affect, gives it that "haunting" sound that often drives us crazy.

I was soooooo interested in this sound that Jerry gets; that I have developed a way to do it when I am playing in the B6th mode; playing Jerry byrd style on my PSG. But it took a long time to get it right.

"Where there is a will, there IS a way"

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 January 2003 at 12:23 PM.]

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 January 2003 at 12:24 PM.]

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 January 2003 at 12:28 PM.]

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

Carl,

Thanks for the explanation. Now, why couldn't I have thought of that?? It never occured to me that the nose of the bar could be used in that manner. Very interesting. I wonder if anyone has thought of using a double-ended bar or turning the bar around to do such slants in "reverse" where the nose is intonating the lower strings and the straight part is on a higher string (although I not sure if there would be any such cords available to do that with).

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

Carl, I need a little more help understanding the G7 technique please. When you talk about "pushing the bar down on the middle string", are you saying to pull on the B note with a finger behind the bar, to raise the pitch. I believe Stacey Phillips calls this "choking the string". If this is not what you meant, how can one "press the bar down on the middle string" with out pressing the bar down on the other strings and raising their pitch too? ...Thanks

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 12 January 2003 at 04:24 PM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Jesse,

No, I am talking about actually pushing the nose of the bar down in such a way that the "B" note (in my example) is raised slightly in pitch without the other two notes being raised or lowered.

The best way to describe this on paper is to think of one just starting to put their hand underneath a pillow. In this example, the hand represents the bar and the pillow represents the string. In other words, you are pushing down and forward ONLY on the middle note. Yet the rounded part of the bar does not move the top string. Nor does the bar move the bottom string. It is NOT easy to get right at first. But a little practice makes perfect.

I have watched JB and my friend Garland do it so quickly and effortlessly and just shook my head in awe. Stay with it friend. It WILL come.

God luck with it and may Jesus be with you,

carl

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

This is great stuff Carl. Thank you for the concise explanations.

Below is tab showing a couple of these split slant positions and how to use them in a I, IV, V pattern.



     C6            F7           G7         C


E---------------|-------------|----------|-12


C----12--12-----|--12--12-----|--14--14--|-12


A----12--12-----|--12--12-----|--14--14--|---


G---------------|-------------|----------|-12


E----12--12-----|--11--11-----|--13--13--|---


C---------------|-------------|----------|--- 


                     








    C6            F9            G7        C6


E----12--12-----|--15--15-----|----------|---


C----12--12-----|--15--15-----|--14--14--|-12


A----12--12-----|-------------|--14--14--|-12


G---------------|--14--14-----|----------|---


E---------------|-------------|--13--13--|-12


C---------------|-------------|----------|---

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories

Dave Birkett · From: Oxnard, CA, USA

Carl, thanks for the tip on pushing the middle string; it works great. As for the first slant, when JB does this percussively, that is picking the change instead of sliding into it (like in Coconut Grove), does he still slant?

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Oh indeed Dave he does. And ALL the time. Here is an example:

"It's Ah Co(coanut Grove)"

1. Bar straight on It's (10th fret).

2. Slant the bar on Ah (moving up two frets)

3. Bar straight again on Co. (10th fret)

His slants are so quick and fluid as to mimic the finest crafted and oiled machine. Here is another example of just how quick he can execute slants (I wrote this up once before on this forum).

Jerry does a backward to foward slant on HW's "Cold Cold Heart" that is incredibly smooth and just as equally a hard to do pair of slants. It takes you from a V7 chord to the I chord in a very pretty sustained phrase:

Pick strings 1 and 3 for both chords.

1st string 10th fret. 3rd string 11th fret. Now immediately slide and reverse the slant using the same two frets. That is, 1st string 11th fret and 3rd string 10th fret.

The slant should look like this >> X

Try it, you will love it.

carl
[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 January 2003 at 05:41 PM.]

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Great lucid explanation, Carl. That Byrd "X" slant is one that takes a long time to master - if ever. Here are some other useful split string slants:

I've used these positions for years and these split string chords really help you get the most out of C6th or C13th tuning. Some other useful positions are ...






G aug               G dim        G9


     


E-----7---------|-------------|----------|--


C-----7---------|-----7-------|----9-----|--


A-----6---------|-----7-------|----8-----|--


G---------------|-----6-------|----------|--


E---------------|-------------|----7-----|--


C---------------|-------------|----------|-- 


                     








    E7             E7          G7 or Em       


E----12---------|-------------|----12----|--


C---------------|----8--------|----11----|--


A----11---------|-------------|----10----|--


G---------------|----9--------|----------|--


E----10---------|----10-------|----------|--


C---------------|-------------|----------|--

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 12 January 2003 at 05:56 PM.]

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

I always liked (C6/A7):






E --   10      9      8      7


C --    9  to  9  to  -  to  -


A --    8      8      8      8

Also .... Those split-string Augmented runs:



E --  5      9      13      


C --  5  to  9  to  13  .....


A --  4      8      12

and Diminished runs:



E --  -      -      -       - 


C --  5  to  8  to  11  to  14 .....


A --  5      8      11      14


G --  4      7      10      13

are pretty

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My Steel Shoes Site

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 12 January 2003 at 06:43 PM.]

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

Rick, could you tell us what strings those notes are on please? Thanks

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

I play Hawaiian Wedding Song in the C6th tuning and ran into this situation (of same fret on strings 1 & 2 and slanted to the lower fret on string 4). It takes some "getting use to".

But harmonics still frighten me. I do them; but I'm like a Navy F-18 pilot doing a night carrier landing when I'm playing them. The pilot keeps looking at his watch saying "in fifteen more minutes I have to land". I say, "here come those darn harmonics" when I'm playing.

Right now, I practice harmonics looking at my right hand only and try to be on fret with the bar from only what I guess will be the correct place. I sure would like to learn to do harmonics with more ease.

...don't mean to change the subject; but since so many are focused on technique in this thread;___this is my weakest area of my playing.

Rick

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Yes Rick,

Been there done that! Maybe this story will help you. I had lunch with Buddy Charleton once and we got to talking about Jerry Byrd's and Buddy Emmons' incredible harmonics. And Buddy C, told me that he personally saw BE practice doing harmonics for 4 solid hours one night backstage at the Grand Ole Opry.

My feeling is, if BE did that at the Opry, how many more hours did he do it? In other words, harmonics like slants or anything else is NOT going to come thru osmosis. It is from the school of "hard work". As JB once said,

"Practice, Practice, Practice".

I can attest that it DOES indeed work.

Bless you,

carl

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

Sorry Jesse ... I fixed it ...

I can only use my thumb and my index finger (ruined my right hand playin' High School football) ... So I like chords on adjacent strings ... "strummers"

I can use my thumb to sweep the bottom strings and pick the top with my index on somethin' like this:



E ---------


C -- 4    5


A -- - to -


G -- 5    5


E -- 6    5

But with alot of the fancy chord work .... I have to "go without" ... usually leaving out the middle note ...

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My Steel Shoes Site

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

John Kavanagh · From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada * R.I.P.

This is a very useful thread for me, since I've been working on split slants a lot lately. Thank you very much, Carl and Doug too, for your examples.

I just bought a Twister tone bar, the one with a bullet on both ends, and I'm trying out the new possibilities; one that jumped out is a new minor chord. Again in C6 at the 12th fret, it would be an Em (or a partial C major 7th) with e and g at the 12th fret on strings 4 and 5, and b on the 11th fret on string 2.

Another thing I'm realising is that the geometry of string spacing, scale length, and bar diameter is crucial. My acoustic and electric are different, and some things work better on one or the other with the new bar. I'm thinking of changing the string spacing on the acoustic.

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Somebody mentioned Stacey Phillips,he's got a chord book where he details his "slant-plus-bend" technique. Basically, he slants the bar on two strings, then pulls the other one in tune to form some unique triads. It's a good way to get complex chords on a dobro, and Stacey is a master at it. Check him out!!
And Carl, it's real good to see you.

Jack Byrd · From: Kalamazoo, Michigan

I posted this reply of Jerry's some time ago about bar slanting. Thought some of you might get something out of it in this new thread by Carl. It is Jerry's own words.

This is where a lot of people err. They do it mechanically and it don’t come out good. The best thing I could do is refer you to my video where I get into this pretty heavily and demonstrate how they should do it.
To answer Don McClellan’s problem where he can’t seem to get very good tone out of a 3 string slant (chord) such as playing string 5 at the 7th fret and strings 2 and 3 or 3 and 4 at the 8th fret and so on. This is what I call split string. I discovered this years and years ago. If you play the top three strings and you slant that one fret, top string stays one fret lower than the third string, the second string can be played if you know how to do it. What I discovered years ago was that I had to have a bar about ¾” in diameter (just about) and a gently rounded nose not a pointed nose and with the string spacing 3/8.” You can put the bar between those strings and it will make contact on either side of the bar right about where the tapering of the nose starts on the shaft and it will go right between them and you can play three strings. Two on the 7th fret split and the 3rd string on the 6th fret and in different tunings you have different chords but in the Emajor tuning it would be the most logical to figure out. You go from a major to a minor chord (those three strings). I have been doing that for years. I have been playing diminished, augmenteds, 9th chords, 7th chords, a lot of stuff – different inversions of those chords all of that by splitting the string but you can’t do it with any kind of a bar and any kind of a guitar. The string spacing has to be right for the size of the bullet nosed bar as it has to make contact on both sides equally. The only one that would come out a little less than normal would be the top string. So what I do to compensate for that is kind of push the bar a little bit rather than leave it in a normal position where it makes better contact with the top string but when played in sequence you don’t hear it anyway. I have been playing stuff that way and people could not figure out what I was playing for years. I have been recording this stuff for years and they are now just catching on or figuring out what I was doing and why.

To those avoiding three string slants I guess that is one way around but it is so simple and right under your nose there is no need to avoid them. I call this the split string technique and it is vital to my playing.

Jack Byrd · From: Kalamazoo, Michigan

I must have punched the darn button twice, so deleted the second one.

[This message was edited by Jack Byrd on 13 January 2003 at 11:43 AM.]

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