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Topic: Resohonic Hot Rod with Super Glue |
Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2003 5:15 pm |
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In another message in No Peddlers, Fred Brown said:
"At the 'hot rodding your reso' session during the ResoFest, it was mentioned that these guitars benefit from additional back and face bracing and stiffening of the sound well. Apparently they use real soft wood. And that absorbs the sound. A technique using thin super glue on the well to stiffen it sounded interesting."
I'm interested in this super glue technique. Could you elaborate, Fred (or anyone else who knows about this)?
Thanks.
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 8 Jan 2003 8:48 pm
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| Good question -- I was wondering the same thing. |
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Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 8 Jan 2003 9:08 pm
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They were talking about the import guitars using softer wood for the soundwells. Their theory is the super glue is so thin, and dries very hard, so apply it to the top of the soundwell to "build" a hard surface that is not apt to absorb as much vibration. Also, adding a hardwood bracing should help in transfering the sound. But, if you're not careful you could end up absorbing the vibrations as well.
I imagine all luthiers (and Gibson) who use a soundwell, are using Maple. |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2003 9:10 pm
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Kenny,
The "top" of the soundwell? I guess I don't know my resophonic parts well enough to know exactly where that is. Any chance you could describe it more particularly?
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 8 Jan 2003 9:18 pm
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Alan -- the soundwell is the round, drum-shaped piece of wood that supports the cone. The part Kenny is talking about is the top edge of this piece where the edge of the cone touches it.
Even so, I'd have to say that I don't understand how this would work. All you'd be doing is putting a hard SURFACE on the top edge of the soundwell. The soundwell itself would still be made out of the same material -- soft wood -- so it seems like it would still absorb the sound. Sort of like putting a spacer under a set of really soft springs in your old Chrysler -- all it does is jack up the car -- the springs are still as soft as before.
Well, maybe it would work -- I don't know. |
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 9 Jan 2003 8:11 am
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| One of the things I've found with budget Dobro's is that the lip of the well (where the cone seats) is often not smooth, covered in finish, bits of sawdust and assorted crap. It can help to scrape/sand this surface and then apply a thin 'finish' of SuperGlue to give an even surface for the cone to sit on. |
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Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
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Posted 9 Jan 2003 9:02 am
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Supposedly, the super glue (not gel) is thin, and will absorb into the softer wood. This would take several applications I would think. I missed most of that part of the workshop.
I think the key to improving the import models is to replace the cone, spider, use ebony/maple saddles, and a bone nut. Having the nut and the saddles as high as possible also helps in the volume department. |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 9 Jan 2003 9:16 am
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seems like a lot of trouble to me.
I's like buying a Yugo and installing stainless steel leaf springs and baby moons.
if you're going to replace the cone with a quarterman, ebnony capped saddle, bone nut,messing with the soundwell, impregnating it with crazy glue, paying someone to set it up, or possibly doing an inferior job by yourself, aren't you better off buying a decent ($1200.00 - $1500.00)reso? And learn to play it better?
Just asking  [This message was edited by HowardR on 09 January 2003 at 09:23 AM.] |
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 9 Jan 2003 10:05 am
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Kenny, I can see now that if the super glue were to absorb into the wood, then that would seem to accomplish the desired effect of stiffening the wood.
And, I can also see that improving the surface smoothness would help too -- verrrry interesting. Seems like it would take a lot of crazy glue, though. But, still -- I guess using up several tubes of crazy glue is still cheaper and easier than ripping out and replacing the soundwell |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2003 11:55 am
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HowardR said:
"...if you're going to replace the cone with a quarterman, ebnony capped saddle, bone nut,messing with the soundwell, impregnating it with crazy glue, paying someone to set it up, or possibly doing an inferior job by yourself, aren't you better off buying a decent ($1200.00 - $1500.00)reso?"
Nope. I'd do it myself. Total cost, including new Regal RD45 = $450.00.
Although I certainly wouldn't mind having a $1,500.oo reso.
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 9 Jan 2003 12:11 pm
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| Conventional wisdom says that the rim of the soundhole should have no finish of any kind on it. this is why builders don't glue the cones in place. So wouldn't attempting to stiffen this edge with super glue, compromise its ability to hold the cone properly, or even cause the soundwell to dampen the cone? I gotta agree with Howard on this one, why buy a new instrument, then rebuild it? Reminds me of a bass player I knew years ago. He bought a Fender Squire P-Bass, when they first came out. Said it sounded real good, after he put new keys, pickups, and bridge on it. |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2003 2:49 pm
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Stephen Gambrell said:
"...why buy a new instrument, then rebuild it?"
Simple answer: money. The hot-rodded "new" instrument is one third the price of the $1,200-$1,500 guitars that you and HowardR apparently own. Not all of us have that kind of money.
It's the same reason that, when I was 15 years old, I bought a Yamaha 80 motorcycle and hopped it up rather than buying a bigger motorcycle -- money.
Since I've only been playing dobro for a couple of months I thought I'd start out with something cheap. Then, later, I'd save up and buy something better.
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Steve Honum
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2003 3:47 pm
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I had an OMI model 27, years ago that John Carruthers set up for me with a bead of "mastic" or "blue tak" around the lip of the soundwell, which the cone sat on. It cured all the buzzes and rattles but I later wondered if it was absorbing some of the volume. At the time I heard of guys tacking in their cones with little nails?? He also put in a bone saddle, which I thought made the guitar too bright. I later took it to the OMI shop in Huntington Beach were their set-up guy put back in a standard boxwood bridge which softened up the sound. After that I was pretty happy, but ended up selling the reso and going electric. I'm considering getting another one some day if I hit a lucky deal.
Haere mai,
Steve H.
S8A6 |
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Jesse Pearson
From:
San Diego , CA
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Posted 9 Jan 2003 3:52 pm
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| I've seen famous guys doing one night stands with what ever pickup band was there to back them, using cheapo instruments that they could afford to lose. It's tricky trusting the airlines with your baby. It's no big deal working on a cheapo instrument to make it play and sound better. Les Paul was always amazed at how many guys couldn't work on their own gear. Sides, the guys I've met who can't work on their own cars or do their own yard work are kinda..."Milky Licker". Know what I mean Vern? [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 09 January 2003 at 07:02 PM.] |
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Andy Zynda
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 10 Jan 2003 6:39 am
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This sounds like a great idea. I also could not afford a spendy reso, but have made my "cheapo" sound fantastic. This is one more nifty tip to add to the list.
If I'd have had to spend $1000+ on a reso, I wouldn't have one at all.
Or, I'd have one, and be busy paying alimony...
-andy-
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 10 Jan 2003 7:47 am
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oooops! I neglected to realize the most important equation here....the spousal factor.
Some of us who don't have to answer to a higher authority have a bit more flexability I suppose. Maybe I can find another use for super glue.....like sealing my upper to bottom lip! Carry on...... |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2003 9:36 am
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So how is this super glue applied? Squeeze a glob out and spread it with a small paintbrush?
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 10 Jan 2003 10:39 am
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Regular (I like Duro brand) SuperGlue is water thin, just let it seep in.
Remember that this is not something that is going to transform a guitar like magic from a Regal to a Scheerhorn, just one small thing in a general tune-up of the instrument. |
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Fred Brown
From:
Austin, TX
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Posted 10 Jan 2003 12:19 pm
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Kenny, you remembered it just as I did. You musta been listening in class. The key point was that the wood is soft (maybe because typically it's a laminate) and absorbs the sound waves. In the better guitars, the wood is not soft. And more sound is focused in the cone ...ie: more volume and a fuller sound (more frequencies). At least that is the way Erik explained it.
And Mike D. made a good point. This was one of many little things discussed to help you "hot rod your reso".
Fred |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 10 Jan 2003 4:31 pm
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Oh wow! musta' sniffed too mucha' that crazy glue.....again...
 [This message was edited by HowardR on 10 January 2003 at 04:31 PM.] |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 10 Jan 2003 5:51 pm
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| Alan Kirk; I'm sorry if my post came out wrong, it's just that, as Mike D says, you can't make a Regal sound like a Scheerhorn. I've been told that I can make a Scheerhorn sound like a Regal, though! If you can get hold of a book called "the Resophonic and the Pickers," by Bobby Wolfe(who's an excellent builder from North Carolina), he describes a real good way to install a cone, and set up the whole works. He also mentions that new builders have abandoned the soundwell entirely, and use a system of bracing and baffles instead. Enjoy picking, and learning! |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2003 6:31 pm
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Stephen,
No offense taken on your previous post. Thanks for your advice.
Any idea where to get this book? I tried Amazon but came up dry.
BTW, I think the Regal has the bracing system rather than a sound well. The round hole in which the cone sits has wide, post-like pieces of wood connecting the top and back -- it's not a closed-sided cylinder.[This message was edited by Alan Kirk on 10 January 2003 at 06:34 PM.] |
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 10 Jan 2003 9:01 pm
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| HowardR -- judging from your photo, I'd say that "sniffed" is a bit of an understatement. A more appropriate term that comes immediately to mind is "mainlined." |
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Andy Zynda
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 11 Jan 2003 8:12 am
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Great place to carry it if you're pockets are full though.....
-andy-
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Scott Camara
From:
Connecticut
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Posted 11 Jan 2003 8:29 am
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| Thats a great book from Mr. Wolfe. I think they have it at Elderly Instruments. |
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