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Topic: Speaker design/effect full range (JBL) vs. Guitar |
Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2024 2:33 pm |
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My Missing Link Audio JBL D-120 that Tim Marcus told me I needed in my Pedal Steel Mini, surely does have a very crisp low end and lovely highs. As he put it, "you may not be able to get used to it, but if you can, you will never be able to go back..."
The monster magnet surely tightens up the lows, and the extended frequency range provides extended upper tones & harmonics...
Is that simply a function of using a high fidelity stereo speaker for PSG? Is that why the JBL is so loved? And would any high power stereo speaker also be good?
I guess that for regular 6-string guitar, cutting off the speaker bottom tightness and high frequency response doesn't really compromise the sound...so amp makers just go with that. Certainly cheaper to make...and way less than half the weight
But the great ones used JBLs...Jerry, Duane Allman, etc.
??
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 30 Dec 2024 9:13 pm Re: Speaker design/effect full range (JBL) vs. Guitar
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| Steve Lipsey wrote: |
My Missing Link Audio JBL D-120 that Tim Marcus told me I needed in my Pedal Steel Mini, surely does have a very crisp low end and lovely highs. As he put it, "you may not be able to get used to it, but if you can, you will never be able to go back..."
The monster magnet surely tightens up the lows, and the extended frequency range provides extended upper tones & harmonics...
Is that simply a function of using a high fidelity stereo speaker for PSG? Is that why the JBL is so loved? And would any high power stereo speaker also be good?
I guess that for regular 6-string guitar, cutting off the speaker bottom tightness and high frequency response doesn't really compromise the sound...so amp makers just go with that. Certainly cheaper to make...and way less than half the weight
But the great ones used JBLs...Jerry, Duane Allman, etc.
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The D120 is a musical instrument speaker. As a JBL freak, I have never seen or made a stereo speaker with a D (or even K) series speaker. In the 70's, my friend and I used to make JBL loaded stereo speaker cabinets as well as musical instrument cabinets using a JBL package of speaker cabinet plans for all their current line of speakers at the time. His dad owned a stereo/electronics store that sold our cabinets.
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_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2024 10:01 pm
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Had a PM asking about the Hybrid, here was my answer, all IMHO of course...
The hybrid - a D120 kit on a Black widow frame. about 19 lbs...on an actual D120 frame it is even heavier...I was completely happy with the Jupiter that Tim had liked, but for this Mini he was quite definite that the Hybrid was the way to go. Played with some time between they sound similar to me (I have 2 cabs now), but A/B'd right next to each other the Hybrid does show off tighter lows and more complex highs.
I would actually be quite happier with either...the Jupiter is no slouch, and it is a third of the price and weight...but the Hybrid is the ultimate. As Tim pointed out, there is no hiding - every nuance is clearly presented...but that just makes me be a better player...
And now, of course, Tim is making his own version of the K-120, same as the D but higher power...perhaps slightly less warm, as people say the originals were, due to the stiffer cone surround to allow for higher power. Tim is going for the perfect "Jerry in a box" amp...basically a Pedal Steel Mini, I believe, but EQ'd more for guitar?
The original D-120 was pretty low power and people routinely blew them, I hear, but the Hybrid is rated at 100 watts. ...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Bobby DeMoss
From:
Kansas City, Missouri, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2025 2:15 pm Extra lows.
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I Play E9th lowering the 9th and 10th strings Therefore I like a little more low than most. To get this sound you have to have 2 things.
1. A larger open back cabinet to let the speaker breath good and,
2. An 8 ohm 15 " Black Widow with the ribbed cone and shiny dome.
Nothing else will produce the lows as well and last very long.
I have found all this in one package. The Bonitron built Sho Bud Studio Stage 500. Amp is NLA.
_________________
A Rig-Zumsteel 08 Anti E9th 9x10, Vegas 400's x2 Lemay Mods, B Rig-Zumsteel 99 9x10, Stroborack's X2, Lexicon MPX200's x2. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 6 Jan 2025 5:54 am Re: Speaker design/effect full range (JBL) vs. Guitar
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
The D120 is a musical instrument speaker. As a JBL freak, I have never seen or made a stereo speaker with a D (or even K) series speaker. In the 70's, my friend and I used to make JBL loaded stereo speaker cabinets as well as musical instrument cabinets using a JBL package of speaker cabinet plans for all their current line of speakers at the time. His dad owned a stereo/electronics store that sold our cabinets.
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Jim Lansing and friends created the original "D" series speakers as hifi components, the 15" D130 following the 130A and the D131 being the new 12" model. Standel was the first to install these in instrument amps, and it was only in 1959 when Leo Fender began installing them in guitar and bass cabinets that JBL began stamping the labels with an "F" (Fender) for warranty tracking purposes. Initially there were no modifications to the D130 and D131 but it was not a good fit as these speakers received a lot more abuse at the hands of musicians than they had been designed for, so Harvey Gerst widened the voice coil gap and "gooped" the paper surrounds to improve power handling. These modified speakers - including the D120F which replaced the D131 and newly introduced D110F 10" - continued to carry the "F" designation while the original D130 and D131 remained in production for hifi component use well into the 1960's. |
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Nick Fryer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2025 6:20 am
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Can someone shed some definitive light on the M series? My understanding is that they were the OEM version ? I have a M31 in my Sho Bud S15 and I have an M30 in a cabinet. I really love the way they sound. I’d like to know what they are rated at and how hard I can safely push them. They sound great for steel and for six string guitar.
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www.fryerguitarpickups.com |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 6 Jan 2025 7:44 am
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| JBL did sell the M series as OEM equipment, many have Peavey logos applied but there were others as well. They did not appear in retail catalogs so I have never been able to find listed specs, but they are essentially assembled from K series components. The venting, paint, and label are different but otherwise the basket, magnet, gap, coil, cone, suspension, and surround are all the same parts used in the K series and they can be reconed as such. |
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mtulbert
From:
Plano, Texas 75023
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Posted 6 Jan 2025 8:39 am
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JBL of course made stereo speaker cabinets and one of their systems was a D130 and 075 ring radiator.
I had that system for a time and it was a pretty good system. It did lack some mid range speakers and for monitoring it was not great.
At the studio that I worked out we did use a JBL studio monitor system which was a 15 inch speaker but not a D series as well as a massive horn and the 075. Very truthful speakers but did turn down the 075 and the high end needed to conform to a house curve that our control room was using.
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Mark T
Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12 |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2025 9:35 am
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Pls see my original question re WHY JBLs are good for steel/guitar:
Is (full range, big magnet) that simply a function of using a high fidelity stereo speaker for PSG? Is that why the JBL is so loved? And would any high power stereo speaker also be good?
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Nikolai Shveitser
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2025 9:39 am
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| I have a JBL M30 8 ohm. I dig it! I'm also curious about specs on these. Sounds livelier than my Peavey JBL. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 6 Jan 2025 10:24 am
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| Steve Lipsey wrote: |
Pls see my original question re WHY JBLs are good for steel/guitar:
Is (full range, big magnet) that simply a function of using a high fidelity stereo speaker for PSG? Is that why the JBL is so loved? And would any high power stereo speaker also be good? |
The same design choices that make the JBL D130F a great instrument speaker are what makes it a great hifi speaker, i.e. high efficiency and extended, smooth frequency response, and appropriate power handling. It's not all that hard, just expensive, and my hat is off to Hartley Peavey for developing the Black Widow series using the same principles.
The 4" aluminum voice coil operates in an exceptionally high flux field created by a "big magnet" with a minimal gap, thus generating the maximum amount of horsepower (yes it is!) per watt of electrical input while maintaining tight control of cone travel, minimizing overexcursion, resonances, and peak distortion.
In practical terms, the JBL K series delivers as much as twice the audible volume per watt as most popular guitar speakers, with less distortion, smoother response, and an extra octave of high end. That's why we like 'em! |
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