How much wattage do you really need?

Noah Feldman · From: Connecticut, USA

Hi all- like it says on the tin, is there any reason to step up to 80-100w if you’re not playing a big room unmiked?

I am on the hunt for my first PSG, and I have a blackface Fender Bandmaster, a reissue Supro 1624 Dual-Tone, and a Victory V40- all the amps I use for my typical guitar rig (plus a reissue Princeton Reverb and a Kalamazoo Model One, both of which get use for low volume rehearsal and lap steel recording).

The Bandmaster and V40 seem like they’d work great for steel at 40 watts thru 1-2 x 12” speakers, given that I am typically always either miked up or playing a pretty small space. Even the Supro feels like an okay pick for recording or miking up on stage. But I feel I haven’t seen a PSG player running less than a Fender Twin or similar- sometimes even a pair.

What am I missing? Is that much amp volume required due to the way PSG uses the volume pedal? I rarely ever do a gig on “regular” guitar where I’m pushing an amp above 2-4 on the volume, and that’s without miking the amp for reinforcement. I get that a big room or outdoor space would allow for (if not call for) a bigger amp, but even then I’d expect to always be miked up.

Also, are PSG players allergic to some amp breakup? I see an enormous amount of talk about “crystal clear clean tones” and “maximum clean headroom”- but some of my favorite pedal steel parts are at least a little dirty at their max volume.

Forgive my ignorance, I am just coming from 15 years of guitar and slide, and I suspect there’s some major differences in how PSG interacts with its amplification that I’m missing. Thanks in advance!

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I'd say 100W minimum for me. I use a 6L6 tube MosValve stereo amp with 50W per side, but that's as low as I care to go in a live band situation. I play a lot of C6 though and anything less just craps out.

I only want breakup when I want it so I use my preamp or a dirt box for that.

Noah Feldman · From: Connecticut, USA

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

No, rarely mic'ed so that would certainly make a huge difference if in your case if you are. Sorry, hadn't considered that element. Generally small to medium sized rooms with the occasional gym or hall.

I don't currently have any dirt boxes having just sold all the stomps, but I did use a Ross box sometime back. Other players here can give you better advice on that.

I use a rack rig w/a pre beside me so I can use my old school stuff like a Boss modeler presets and multi-fx units, or just overdrive the input, or choose a second channel for everything from crunch to full distortion and fuzz....I also play some lap slide and reg guitar too, so that's just me.

Keep in mind that I'm an old school older guy from the boomer generation and not up to snuff with current usage. I'm using gear mostly from the 80s and 90s....that may not be relevant to younger players wants and needs in current use.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

In my opinion, pedal steel amplification is situational, depending upon how loud you need to play.

When I first began my pedal steel odyssey, I played my new MSA Red Baron through a '67 Bandmaster head into a '65 2 x 10 Tremolux cabinet. It was fine for a beginner acquiring his chops. After about a month, I traded the student model steel in on a new Sho-Bud Pro I. After I was asked to join a band, it quickly became apparent that the Bandmaster/Tremolux setup was inadequate, especially after I acquired my '73 Emmons D-10, so I purchased a new PV LTD 400. The difference was akin to day and night.

Nearly a half-century later, I'm still playing my Emmons through that 400, long after its original JBL blew out and was replaced by a BW 1501-4. Hands down, it's the best sounding amp I've ever used for pedal steel.

I also have a '79 Princeton Reverb that I replaced the original "Fender Special Design" CTS speaker with a JBL K-110, which sounds great, but does not have the balls to compete with an electric bass and drums in a full band. It's perfect for accompanying acoustic musicians in smaller rooms, however.

I also have a Kalamazoo Model One, and its nearly identical sister, an Epiphone EA-100. Both are wonderful for lap steel, underhand guitar, and harmonica. But neither will cut it for pedal steel.

Keep in mind that it's simple to make a high powered, ultra clean sounding amp sound dirty with a stomp box, but it's nigh on impossible to make a small, low powered amp sound clean.

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

I have done lots of pedal steel gigs with tube amps in the 30 to 35 watt range . Works for me . It all depends on how loud the rest of the band is . Speakers make a lot of difference too . Gotta have some reverb though ! Jerry

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

Try playing complex C6th chords through a low-wattage amp on stage. There’s a reason pro steel players use higher-powered amps.

Noah Feldman · From: Connecticut, USA

Jon Voth · From: Virginia, USA

I'm always mic or direct out, but sometimes things happen when you get there and you can't. Like our brains, use 10% of it (but the rest is there) so lots of power.

I like the Milkman The Amp. 100 watts, very small and light, and whatever cabinet you want. It's very clean.

Noah Feldman · From: Connecticut, USA

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

At this point , since you don't have a pedal steel yet , no need to worry about whether your existing amps are suitable .
Once you start playing in a band , you will know if you need more power or not . I only play E9 steel and have used a few different amps that I built myself . A combo with a pair of 6L6's and a pair of vintage Jensen P12N's , about 30 watts , and a combo with 4X EL84's and a Celestion Vintage 30 , about 35 watts . Works for me , but wouldn't work for everyone. Jerry

Raybob Bowman · From: S. Lake Tahoe, CA, USA

Bobby Black uses a Fender Deluxe Reverb and has used that amp many years now. 22 watts
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Dave Campbell · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

most steel players need more wattage because we only really feed the amp half of our potential volume due to the volume pedal.

the other issue is that the breakup we all know and love on guitar wreaks havoc on pedal steel. all that extra harmonic content while sliding around exacerbates tuning issues, and is a real bummer for those lovely licks where all the notes run together, or for big chords.

i'd say the band master will work if you're playing with a quiet drummer, but due to it's smallish transformer it's not really going to deliver the volume and headroom you're going to want.

it will sound great for practice and recording!

next you'll be searching for the perfect speaker, so enjoy all the gear you look for and acquire!

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I use 200 Watts, not for loudness but for cleanliness, especially on the B6 side of my U12
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Jon Voth · From: Virginia, USA

James P Mitchell · From: Tennessee, USA

A Bandmaster on a 1x12 is going to be on the underpowered side for steel.
There are a few factors here:
1) Modern pedal steel pickups are hot, insanely hot.
2) Typically the amp is run way louder than you would with guitar, and the sustain of the steel is achieved by living pretty low on the volume pedal which leaves you lots of room to swell.
3) Steel sounds nice clean - sounds nice distorted too but it's cool to be able to get it clean, and loud.

I gigged a Bandmaster on a 1x12 (JBL often) for years on guitar. Great rig. Worked nicely with a Sho-Bud too, when I was starting.
It's a little underpowered for a BL705.

Bob Sykes · From: North Carolina

I usually use a BF Deluxe for steel and 6 string. Sometimes a Bassman 50 when outdoors or on a large stage. I like a little tube "edge" on my sound most of the time.

We mic everything and the band I usually play with keeps the stage volume "reasonable" which really helps. I'm just playing E9. If I played C6 on the gig, I know I would need more power/speaker.
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ISO Sustainus Ad Infinitum

Douglas Schuch · From: Valencia, Philippines

I play in a rather loud country/rock band - drummer, bass, 2 guitars, and me. Here in the Philippines most venues are open-air - a roof over you, but no walls. So sound doesn't bounce around much. We mostly play unmic'ed - few bars have a PA that would let us mic everything, and no soundman to adjust it all. I use a Sesh 400 preamp into a Jay Ganz Straight Ahead power amp - I think it's 500 watts with my 4-ohm speaker. My speaker is only rated for 350 watts, but as others have said, the extra power is for sustain with the volume pedal, not max volume. It's a very clean rig, so I can crank as needed to be heard.

If I were in the US, I'd buy one of the Stereo Steel amps by GD Walker that appear here in the forum regularly - I have an old one - they sound great - but power here in the Philippines is nominally 220V, and often only 180V. I would need a heavy transformer to bump it down to 110, and maybe an equally heavy voltage stabilizer so the transformer gets 220V, not 180! But the Ganz and the power supply for the Sesh handle anything from 100-250V, so it's an elegant solution to the absurd power supply here.

YMMV
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Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

More power to make use of a lighter pick attack and better use of the volume pedal on slow songs. A tube amp is louder than a transistor or chip amp. Speaker efficiency makes a difference on volume output also. A tube preamp, like the Revelation, into a Class D or transistor power head makes a good combination for tone and power.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Regardless of the power level needed, a steel amp should lots of gain to allow for dynamics, volume swells, volume pedal loss.

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Depends on how loud your band is and if you are micing the amps or not.
I like clean and clear lead solos and can get distorion if and when I need it.

100 watt Little Walter works for me but sometimes I use a Tone Master Deluxe as our amps are miced 90 % of the time.

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MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Bandmaster and a good reverb and you are good to go

Bobby DeMoss · From: Kansas City, Missouri, USA

A good 100 watts is plenty and if more is needed, it's PA time. Love Senn 609 mics.
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A Rig-Zumsteel 08 Anti E9th 9x10, Vegas 400's x2 Lemay Mods, B Rig-Zumsteel 99 9x10, Stroborack's X2, Lexicon MPX200's x2.

Colin Boutilier · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Playing E9, I haven't come close to running out of room on my 100W Twin Reverb. When I get it fixed, I intend to start using my 45W Super Reverb 1x15 conversion for most gigs.
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