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Topic: Make an S12 into a C6? |
Jerome Reinan
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2024 9:24 am |
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| I just started the pedal steel adventure this past year. I picked up an old 2 neck Excel that was owned by Neil Livingston. After starting down the E9 Road, which I guess basically everyone recommends or even requires, I became much more interested in learning the C6 neck. I grew up playing cello and string bass in orchestras, and so the low notes of the C6 appeal to me much more than E9 and I don’t plan to make a living doing this. The long and short of it is that my current rig has been so heavily modified that my guy tells me that my C6 is not going to be playable without a lot of work. So I’m going to get a single neck. I see that Herb has a wonderful C6 Emmons for sale, and that interests me except I think it might be a bit too complicated to maintain and work on. There’s another guy that has a C6 Justice Judge on Reverb, which interests me. But before I pull the trigger, I thought I would ask you all if it might be possible to buy a 12 string and simply take out two of the strings and tune the rest to C6 in case at some point in time I want to move into a universal tuning. i’m not sure if this is smart or possible or even wise, but I thought that I would throw it out there and see what you folks think. I know that the C6 necks are very uncommon and that’s why I thought maybe buying something that could be turned into a universal might be a better bet. Thanks for your time. |
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Jared Ruari
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2024 9:35 am
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I don't think it would hurt anything to leave two strings off of a S12 and convert it to a standard C6 copedent.
You could also look into a 12 string C6 copedent.
Or get a Universal that "defaults" to 6th mode or that has a lock lever to keep it in 6th mode, if you think you'll be playing those changes more often than not. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 17 Dec 2024 10:38 am
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I wouldn't remove any strings.
You'll find a use for them.
For a start, do you prefer G or D at the top? Have both.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Dec 2024 10:55 am
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I'm with Ian. I would put a D on string 1, B on string 2, G on string 3, and the usual strings 2 to 10 after that.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Jerome Reinan
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2024 11:04 am
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| My basic reasoning for having only 10 strings is that I am taking the Paul Franklin course on the C6 and having come from a four string background, I was a little bit worried about having two extra dangling strings around. If you don’t think that is going to bother my learning process, maybe that’s the route I should go. But I do appreciate everybody’s input here because I think it is sending me down the direction of getting a 12 string rather than a dedicated C6 neck. |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 17 Dec 2024 1:48 pm
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| I’ve thought this out too. And have a 12 string c6 and Bb6 idea on paper. The Bb6 is mostly based on Reece Anderson and David Wright setup. However, for jumping on and learning purely c6….that guitar of Herbs would be my choice. I would love to have it just can’t get off the money for it at this point in time. My only hesitation on 12 string is the spacing. Having played D10 for 30 years I’m hesitant to try it. I tend to think like Ian said. I don’t think the extra two strings would be a problem. |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2024 3:01 pm
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I think Richard has a unique suggestion with a LOT of merit. I have a strong distaste for C6th without a high G string. It feels like a five string guitar that's supposed to have six - its incomplete. But putting the high G on third string and then two re-entrant strings (B & D) covers all the angles. Very clever Richard, I like that !
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 18 Dec 2024 12:16 am
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| Richard Alderson wrote: |
| I think Richard has a unique suggestion with a LOT of merit. I have a strong distaste for C6th without a high G string. It feels like a five string guitar that's supposed to have six - its incomplete. But putting the high G on third string and then two re-entrant strings (B & D) covers all the angles. Very clever Richard, I like that ! |
A 10-string guitar with a "complete" C6 copedent of 4 knee levers would ideally have a lever raising s.3 C to C#. That change in combination with p.5 makes an A6 with the 5th tone E on s.2 in open position. Moving that chord up to f.3 yields a C6 chord with a "G on top" inversion, same notes open C6 but at f.3 and there would also be the 4th tone on s.1 (an F note) as a bonus.
IMHO, for C6 to be "complete" the essential levers should be these. The lever placements are up to the individual, just so long they can be used in combination with p.5 and p.6. On my guitar they are:
LKL raises s.4 A-Bb
LKR lowers s.4 A-Ab
RKL lowers s.3 C-B
RKR raises s.3 C-C#
Of course, RKR (C-C#) without the p.5 combination yields a plain ol' A7 open position and a C7 at f.3.
I've had these levers since 1977 when, at the suggestion of Paul F. and Mike Smith, I put the D note on s.1. That's when the C6 tuning expanded greatly for me and I went from doing pretty traditional Texas western swing to finding more interesting and useful chords for more interesting music.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 18 Dec 2024 4:47 am
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Since I play a 10 string C6, I have the 3rd string C to C# that Herb mentions. I switched the first string to D in the 80s or 90s. I added the C to C# change to get the intervals on the 3rd fret that are available in the open position, just down 1 set of strings. I will admit, that is my least used purpose of that lever. Mostly I use it to make the Am into a major, with p6 to get an F augmented, the C# diminished in the upper strings that you get in the lower strings with p8, and alone to get the A7 chord Herb mentions.
I've never had the A to Ab lever and I'm not sure how to use it.
I've thought of ditching the C on string 10 since I rarely use it,and move strings 2 through 9 down one and put G on string 2 and D on 1. Not sure why I want to do it. 
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 18 Dec 2024 7:34 am
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I play a fairly typical B6/E9 uni.
When I lower the Es my top four strings become (in C6-speak) GDEC which is not quite as sophisticated as Richard's method, but it preserves the E9 re-entrant strings which I do use now and then.
I mostly use my equivalent of the A-Ab lever in conjunction with P5 to give a 7b5 chord.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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