See if you can answer this???

Gary Steele · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

You guys that have played in many bands and situations. There are a lot of different ways and tuning methods. If you have tried a lot of presets, alot of people say they just tune up and play. Iv done it alot myself. Then a lot of people say they will still temper tune or fine tune. Im wondering what you think out of all the tuning on the peterson. In your opinion which one seems to be the closest when you play with a band that tunes everything to 440.

I'm not a person that has got to play with a lot of fabulos bands. I drove big trucks and never was a pro like some people. I've tried all the temper tunings like the S E9 the MA 9 and a bunch more. This is not for debate. but your opinion how many of you people that plays with the top bands can get by with strictly using the Newman presets and play without touching it up. I kind think that a lot of different people dont seem to think tuning is all that important. I would guess the pros would touch up any of the presets some anyway. I like tuning strictly by ear but it takes time when you havent done a lot of it. And it's a time factor at times. Give your opinion if you want or send a pm.

I would never mention someone's name if they didn't want that. I'm not a great player but i like a good guitar and amp and a good tone. Thank God after 50 years i have that under control pretty well most of the time. I dont look at knobs i strictly listen only. No charge for that LOL.

Harold Fogel lived here in Columbus Ohio many years ago before going to Nashville and the Opry. He offered to teach me and i was too much into drinking and running. He was a jewel; i think everyone liked him. He offered so many times to take me back stage at the Opry. I hated to bother him. My long time friend from here is just as real, you cant beat him. Junior Mercer. And a fabulous talented steel man. He never changes. Thanks for looking.

P.S. My Little Walter might have a lot to do with my tone. I get so many compliments since i got it.
Thanks to Phil Bradbury.

I also like my SD 10 Infinity by Frank Carter. While im at it i have the nicest later model zum with 3 and 5 i may trade for a SD 10 Infinity or possibly a S 10.

I'm glad Randy Gilliam let me have this. It's like finding a neddle in a haystack.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Before strobe tuners, I used an E tuning fork by tapping it and putting it against my pickup to have the sound come through my amp or I would stick it between my teeth and let my head vibrate and hear it. It was always a challenge to tune when the club jukebox was blasting. It's much easier and quicker to have a tempered programmed tuner.

When using a tuning fork, I tuned using harmonics and playing two strings together and tuning out the beats, which is tempered. When using a strobe tuner I tune the E's to 442 and A/B down to tune C#'s and A's. That puts my A's at 440 and in tune with a piano.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

I have used Jeff Newman's tuning for years. When you go from 1 gig to another, Can cause problems, With some Keyboards and amps. Building voltage can change pitch and cause a problem. When I played in a band with a keyboard I noticed some gigs I had to slide the bar above the fret line. And I could not use open strings licks in A or E, Or the sound went south.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I like both the SE9 and MA9. Both work well on my Carter. Sometimes I switch between them, it's a mood thing ya know. I'm currently using MA9.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Bill C. Buntin · Posted 9 Dec 2024 7:42 am

I’ve used the Newman method for 30 years. To me, the idea is for everything to be relatively pleasing to the ear AND be in tune with the ensemble. Admittedly you will come across the occasional acoustic piano that’s not tuned very well. That’s the only time it’s ever been a problem for me. I would add, the best method for repeating the Newman like presets for me has been with pure analog tuner. Like the boss tu. The analog needle is comfortable for me. This method has always worked for my situations.

Dave Meis · From: Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA

I use OE9 (A-440) and tune the Es, C#s, and As with A&B down. Works in most all cases! Might have to schooch the bar a little if I'm using multiple pedals and levers. I have one compensator on st. 6 on the A pedal cross shaft .. when I just use the A pedal, the G# drops to a noticeable degree.

Dale Rivard · From: Ontario, Canada

Hi Gary, Here's my take on it: There isn't 1 tuning chart that works for every guitar & player. Steels have different amounts of cabinet drop and players vary their position & pressure with the bar. Certain charts can get you in the ballpark & others very close but they will never fine tune every pedal steel. You mention tuning by ear and that is really the only way for you to lock in the tuning for your particular guitar. Unless you have a severe hearing impairment, everyone can learn this skill. It may take some time but you can train your ears to hear the relationship between the intervals. Start with tuning the 8th string to the 4th string(octaves) as they're fairly easy to hear. Then, tune the 5th of the chord to the root and listen deep to what's happening to the beats & waves between the notes. Fine tuning should also be done with the bar on the strings as the relationship between strings can change(bar pressure, string gauge). It can take a fair amount of time & practice to get proficient at this but in my opinion, it's worth the effort. And, once you train your ears, you can't unhear it. It's a gift and can be a curse! lol And, it doesn't matter what tuning method you use: Just Intonation, Equal Temperment or a form of Meantone. All of these can be done by tuning by ear through training your ear. Another thing to consider is finding the center of pitch of the musicians you're playing with(band). Learning to tune your steel by ear will only help with this and allow you to play more in tune with the other instruments. After you feel comfortable tuning by ear, you can create your own customized tuning chart, if you like. All the best, Dale

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

In my experience I have come to the conclusion that it is more about your ears and hands than how you tune.

I spent years tuning beats out by ear and by now I have spent years just tuning everything to straight up 440. I have tried everything inbetween. I do admit that I never liked any presets from anybody.

There are so many variables with different steels and musical choices that you can only find something that sorta works and then go ahead and play in tune as best you can. I struggle to play in tune pretty much all the time but the struggle rarely has anything to do with a tuning system.

One experiment is to play a major scale on one string only. If you can't get that in tune no tuning system will help.
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Bob

Bill C. Buntin · Posted 11 Dec 2024 12:07 pm

Dale and Bob; you guys have both said it as good as I’ve ever heard it explained The Newman method for me at least was the best choice given the nature of the beast. Reece used to tell me “don’t worry so much about it! If it sounds right, it is right!”. I had created my own custom Newman type chart for several different guitars based on the cabinets deflection etc for each. Nowadays with my EMCI this is less of an issue because the guitar Has very little cabinet deflection. Which allows me to tune out all the beats and bring everything really close to 440. With some minor sweetening here and there. Sometimes the thirds of some chords will still be a bit sharp to the ear. I mean when I’m just listening to the guitar. But once the band, particularly one with keyboards, is in the mix it’s not noticeable enough to worry about. I thought for years that I was never really “in tune “ particularly compared to acoustic piano. But now with my EMCI I can play in tune with my Samick studio piano with no noticeable Dissonance. If that makes sense. I guess this is one of if not the most talked about issue in the pedal steel world. Ear training and good relative pitch is the key to the mystery imo….

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

HD model

The Newman schemes SE9 and SP9 work the best for me. I haven't had any problems playing live with keyboards, but I did just pass on a recording that was heavy on the piano and organ because the keys weren't in tune with each other so getting the steel in tune was going to be a hopeless task.

Dave Magram · From: San Jose, California, USA

As I understand it, Jeff Newman's original E9 tuning chart recommended tuning your E strings to "440" ("straight up" on the tuner, 0 deflection) based on measuring Lloyd Green's tuning with a a strobe tuner. But a couple of years later, Jeff revised his chart to recommend tuning your E strings to 442.5--to accommodate for "cabinet drop" when the pedals are depressed.
Of course, "442.5" is just a "guesstimate", because different guitars have different degrees of cabinet drop. Whoa!

Then about 10 years ago, Larry Bell posted on his website a brilliant solution to the vexing problem of adjusting for "cabinet drop".
Larry recommends tuning the E strings to “440”, but then his method cleverly adjusts for the degree of “cabinet drop” on your individual guitar—which no other method seems to do!

Very clever, Larry! Very Happy

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From Larry Bell at: http://www.larrybell.org/id32.htm

1. Push your A and B pedals and release a few times, then HOLD THE A & B PEDALS DOWN (ENGAGED).
Tune the E notes to be STRAIGHT UP (0 deflection) WITH THE A and B PEDALS ENGAGED

2. Release your A and B pedals (NO PEDALS ENGAGED)
Check your E strings. They should be 4-8 cents sharp (441-442 on the Hertz scale)
Tune the B's the same offset as the E's; if the E's are 4 cents sharp, tune the B's 4 cents sharp.

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Those are the two most important steps; the rest of Larry's instructions are at: http://www.larrybell.org/id32.htm and http://www.larrybell.org/id29.htm

The main reason why Larry's method works so well is that it maintains an accurate interval between the 1 (E) and the 5 (B)—and automatically adjusts to each individual guitar's degree of cabinet drop.

After the first two steps shown above, I check the rest of the strings as Larry describes on his website-- which is very similar to Jeff Newman’s original JI offsets based on (E= “440”). Works great!

Thanks, Larry!

-Dave

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