An Old C6th Copedant from Pete Drake - First String G to A

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Joe A. Roberts from Seoul South Korea wrote the following interesting comment about an older C6th copedant used by Pete Drake. I have a question about C6th copedants with the high string G on top:

After reading Joe's comment, ....My question is the following: In the Pete Drake C6th Copedant, if the 5th pedal raises first string G to A, what else would the fifth pedal do?

The idea about having AB pedals on a C6th copedant sounds really attractive. I am getting ready to ditch my 1st string D. I learned C6th with good ole A C E G A C E G, (no pedals) and that re-entrant D just isn't natural/instinctive for me, especially due to the lack of any higher register after string 2. All the high notes are missing and it feels limited and constrained. I have made the decision to go with the high G instead.

If Joe or anybody else could explain more about Pete Drake's old C6th copedant and the fifth pedal, I would appreciate any further explanation.
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Joe A. Roberts · From: Seoul, South Korea

Hi Richard, I am sorry I missed your message on that other thread.
Here is Pete Drake's copedent:

(Paul Franklin said that Pete's P8 was standard, and that this chart is incorrect in that respect)

As you can see, the pedal 5 changes are the same, except for that high A.
When the C6th pedal tuning was developed, the G string originally was lowered to F# with pedal 5.
Sometime in the early 60s, raising it to G# with pedal 5 became popular and practically standard.
Pete Drake however raised it to A unlike almost any other player.

The real expert to talk to would be Johnny Cox. I know he is a Pete Drake fan and that he also chose to raise his G to A on his C6th before he started developing his D13th universal tuning.

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Here are some other cool ideas for a high G tuning you may not have seen, first a brilliant copedent from Carl Dixon that may interest you:

His explanation:
"While admittedly more pedals and knee levers than standard; and a copedent few others (if any) would even consider, nonetheless, it has proven to be all I could ever wish for in a C6 PSG. I simply cannot imagine a single other change I could ever want. Maybe one will come along, but I have not a clue what it might be.

First, it solves the problem you brought up.

2. It allows the former pedal 6 (now RKL) to be used with every single pedal and knee lever (save RKR). This feature alone has proven to be the single greatest change I have ever made on a PSG.

3. It gives what the C6 standard copedent never did; and that is the ability to have "on demand" the inversion resolve ability that the A and B pedals plus the E to Eb lever gives to E9th. (Note pedals 4 and 5) with and without RKR or RKL.

4. Yet retains everything the standard C6 copedent has.

5. Last but not least, pedal 9 used alone gives that all important 5th note (9th string key of C) for strumming crucial bottom strings of the tonic chord. Plus splitting the D (2nd string) with RKL or RKR, adds notes that are sooooooo needed, IMO, for "blues" type playing; plus other needed voicings.

I thank our precious Savior he finally led me to see this after 40 yrs of searching literally thousands of copedents; because it has brought untold joy to me since the day I put it all together.

It further allowed me to go universal which I could never do with the standard universal copedent.

carl" (2004)

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There are also some cool ideas on this high G copedent used by Big Jim Murphy (courtesy of Ricky Davis)

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Tony Locke is a monster player and plays with a high G, I am not sure what his whole copedent is, but it sounds like he is raising the G to G# with pedal 5.
He has a lot of great underviewed videos of his C6th playing on his channel: https://www.youtube.com/@magnatone38

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Another high G player was Herby Wallace. He used the standard C6th 5 floor pedals with only 3 knee levers:
1. the usual C-B
2. middle E to F and string 10 C to D
3. string 4 A to Ab (he had this lever also rodded to raise A to Bb, so he could set up the lever to do either do one or the other)

Big Jim Murphy, Herby Wallace and Tony Locke are easily some of the best players to ever touch the instrument and prove that high G is valid IMO
...Sorry for the info dump! Laughing

I hope I could be of some assistance

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Thanks Joe - Very comprehensive post that I am sure is appreciated by all. I put the high G back on last night, using a .12 gauge string. First time I have had high G since about 2008. It already feels so much better. Like the C6th neck is whole now, and not limited. Next I am going to have to hunt down a mechanic to add the first string change to the pedal 5. I can see that the rest of pedal 5 stays the same as the standard copedant in Pete Drake's version. But the idea of having AB pedal on C6th sounds like the best of both worlds.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

I’ve always preferred G on top, even with Thelonious Monk and some of the other jazzy stuff I like to play. I also raise to A on a pedal, my copedent is up to 7x7 on the back neck

I believe Doug Jernigan simply uses a lighter gauge and tunes his top note to either G or D depending on the song
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1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Apparently someone asked Tom Morell about G vs D on top of C6. if I have it right he basicall said, "well, with G on top, you can play all the stuff you've got worked out for the G on top. And with D on top, you can play all the stuff you have worked out for D on top."
Laughing

All roads lead to Rome...
I think that G to G# is a beautiful thing on P5. One fret below your home chord, you have a nice dom#11 voicing that works great as a sub for the 5 chord. For example fret 11, pedal 5, would be Db#11, then at fret 12, you resolve to C.

My tuning experiments with A6 and so on usually have a 5th on top. Raising it up a tone (like the G - A on C6) is very cool. However, I find that the semitone raise yields more fruit, but that's just my experience...

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