vintage Tricone, string breakages on 3 & 4

Paul Seager · From: Augsburg, Germany

I am lucky to own a 1929 National Tricone squareneck. Sounds glorious, enough said.
But I am cursed by string breakage on strings 3 & 4 when re-tuning from a lower pitch. The scenario is this:
Using D'Addario EFT15 set, I tune open G, then, for some songs, tune 3 down a tone to F, to get a dom 7 chord. Plays happily in that tuning but when I return 3 to G, very, very often, snap! Btw, it's a wound .023.

A year ago, I was using a mix of a lighter gauge EFT set with a single-purchased strings (all D'Addario) so that I could change 4&5 from open A to A6. I would gauge 4 for F# but when re-tuning 4 from E back to F#, snap! It would be unfair to say it always happened but far too often to be coincidental.

Now obviously, the string length on 3&4 is the longest and with the slotted headstock, it looks like there is the most tension. The break most often occurs near the tuner's roller, not at the tailpiece. I have another, cheap guitar, with a flat headstock and I can re- tune that any way I like, same brand and gauge strings but never a breakage. Unfortunately that instrument sounds crap so not an alternative tonally!

Any ideas? Is this common to Nationals? Should I drop the gauge on 3 further to something closer to a B string? Should I use a plain string only on 3?
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\paul

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Lloyd Graves · From: New York, USA

I'm no luthier, but if you're having repeat breaks at the same point, I would recommend looking at that spot to see if there are any burrs or rough metal. Perhaps taking a file and rounding off the "corner" (edge?) as it enters the bar might help. I hope that makes sense.

That used to happen on one of my first banjos, and when I finally looked, I saw that the timing post wasn't smooth, causing the strings to break. (Lots of retuning on the banjo.)

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

There are frequently little burs in the tuner string hole that will break strings. A round jeweler's file can fix this. Also doing the old "wrap the string around the post so the string breaks over the extension of the string instead of the post itself" trick.

https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarlessons/comments/ekgnax/wrap_your_strings_around_the_post_using_the_lock/

I have had a bunch of vintage tricones, and still have number 201 from 1927. Flat back, wood well, soldered strips. Love those old things!

Dave

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

I've messed around with that tuning on my tricone, and never had a string break because of it. As the others have said, I would look at where the string is breaking and compare it to the guitar to see if there are any spots on the guitar that would cause this sort of breakage.
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Lee Holliday · From: United Kingdom

Only contact point aside from the tail piece (anchor point) is maple bridge or bone nut, maybe choking at the nut a v-light file there or look at the saddle.
I have no similar problems with my tricone so trial and error at this point

Sebastian Müller · From: Berlin / Germany

I had constant stringbreaks on my Dobro and Tricone by tuning between C#Minor and A. I switched to a plain .022 and never had a broken 3rd string again. Advantage of the plain sting: no stringbreakages, less bar noise
disadvantage: can sound a bit dull.
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Paul Seager · From: Augsburg, Germany

Jeff Highland · From: New South Wales, Australia

The extra length of 3 and 4 compared to the others does not increase string tension, nor does the break angle at the nut(or bridge).
Like the other guys, I'd suspect a burr on the tuner post, but also a tight nut slot, or a sharp exit at the headstock side of the nut causing string binding.
Cutting the slot wider, and tapering the exit down smoothly, and some graphite may help.
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Paul Seager · From: Augsburg, Germany

Jeff, it's just too coincidental that this keeps happening when changing the pitch on 3 or 4. To be clear, I also drop 6 to F# and E quite a lot and 2 down to Bb but never have breaks here.

The most recent break (3) occurred exactly at the tuner post. I could not see / feel anything like a burr there. However what you say regarding the tight nut slot makes sense if a lighter gauge string is less prone to breaking. I'll investigate this more closely next time I do a re-string.

Regarding "a sharp exit at the headstock"; yes, I try to stop that from happening when I re-string the instrument.

A friend sent me this link: www.pitch-key.com
Not sure if this would make a difference! Anyone tried this product?
_________________
\paul

Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos

Jeff Highland · From: New South Wales, Australia

I use a pitch key on my tricone weissenborn to drop the F# down to F for D minor (open D tuning) Works fine.
When I said sharp exit at the headstock side of the nut, I meant making sure the nut slot is not too flat so that here is not a kink as it leaves the nut towards the tuner roller. You can roll down the back edge of the nut slot (with a nut slot file) to avoid a sharp transition.

That D'Addario EFT15 is already a very light set for open G, excess tension should not be the reason for failure
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone

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