Quilter 202 TB vs Nashville 112 power output, question

Tomi Graso · From: Sydney / Australia

Hi Team, just wondering how can 80W Nashville 112 amp be "louder" than 200W QUILTER 202 Tone Block amp with TT12 speaker. I understand that Nashville 112 is an analog amp, and Quilter TB 202 is a class D amp. Why would there be so much difference in power output?

I will edit this, I've been using TB202 with TT12 speaker for the last 6 months and I am really enjoying the new gear setup. It sounds great. However, it took a while to get used to the neo speaker. Gain is normally set on 12'clock and Master on full to be able to keep up with a loud band.

But just as a test i took the NV 112 to the gig the other day and found it to be a lot more powerful, so much so that Gain was set on 4 and Master on 6 and there was still a lot of volume left with the volume pedal. I use standard Goodrich L120 pot pedal.

Would Quilter in general work better with an Active volume pedal like Hilton or Telonics that uses buffer.

So now i have even more questions. Pls chime in if you have any suggestions, Thank you very much.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

My NV 112 @ 80 watts is much louder than my 200 watt NV400. Not sure I understand why though. Actually, it may not be louder, but more efficient when controls are set to lower levels than the NV400.

My NV112 has a TT-12 8 ohm speaker, but the same situation with the stock Peavey 4 ohm speaker. I have a BW 1502-4 in my NV400.

When playing live, my NV 400 has the master gain all the way up, and pre-gain around 3 to 4.

My NV112, the master is between 5 to 7, and pre-gain is around 2 to 3.

These are used everywhere I play pretty much, as the bands I play with mic the amps, so stage volume is consistent.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

chuck lemasters · From: Jacksonburg, WV

Tomi
I agree that the 80 watt Nashville 112 puts out as much or more apparent volume than the Quilter I had. I have to disagree with Richard regarding the Nashville 400. My Nashville 400 ( one of the later versions) can be much louder than the 200 watt Quilter, the Nashville 112 or the 300 watt Milkman I owned. Probably overkill and very heavy to carry, but the apparent difference has led me to question power ratings from class D amps.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Chuck... if I turn up my NV400 up louder with the controls, it would blow the walls out of my apartment. My point was, at the stage volume I consistently play at live, the controls on the 400 are at higher levels than the 112.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Tomi Graso · From: Sydney / Australia

Thank you Richard and Chuck for your input on this subject, I am glad i am not the only one questioning the power output of the class D amplifires.

This is in no way trying to criticise the new technology. It still sounds great! I am just curious as to why is it advertised to be 200W, when in real life, on a stage volume with a 5 piece band it feels different.

I've been playing for about 25 years in any situation possible and this new technology caught me by surprise a bit after i went and spent almost $2000...due to low currency exchange rate. Research continues.

chuck lemasters · From: Jacksonburg, WV

Richard..OK, I understand what you were saying…and I agree the Nashville 400 would knock down walls, much more volume available than any of the aforementioned amps..

Alan Murphy · From: N Ireland

I tried a Toneblock 202 for an evening but didnt really notice the power output being a problem.

Some random thoughts...

The correct speaker out plug on the TB202 must be choosen depending on the attached speaker: 4/8/16 ohms

To achieve the output rated power you have to drive the input with the maximum allowed signal voltage.

The manual says :

Input headroom will exceed 5V with EQ in the middle of its range.

Typically single coil pickups will be less than 2 volts peak to peak and humbucking pickups usually higher.

The volume pedal cuts the pickup output as we all want to be able to swell the low level notes.

A lot of signal energy is in the eq section, and many cut the middle and bass frequencies

The TB202 limiter might be cutting in and reducing the peak outputs.

There are lots of ways to rate power specifications. RMS, Continuous, Peak, Music, Program etc... all very different and specs dont say what is being used (RMS is usual)

Finally the speaker sensitivity is a big factor which is power input versus loudness, a Black Widow 8 ohm has sensitivity of an extra 3dB compared to the same BW 4 ohm speaker and that would be noticible at max volumes.

My guess is the TB202 can achieve its rated power but the input voltage must be at a maximum to achieve it and all of the above conditions must be satisfied, which is not really possible for a steel player setup.

Peavey amplifiers designed specifically for Steel guitar likely have a much lower input headroom so higher power outputs can be easier achieved.

I'm all for FLAT OUT steel guitar Very Happy

Tomi Graso · From: Sydney / Australia

Thank you Alan for your thoughts, I think it's exactly as you explained - power not being a problem with TB202, it's rather how to drive the EQ section and setting the Gain properly.
Since Travis Toy is using a Telonics volume pedal, I am wondering if this setup works better with an active volume pedal.

Rick Contino · From: Brattleboro, Vermont

I have had the same issue with my the Quilter amps and wondered this same thing. How can my 210 watt NV 400 have so much more power than the 200 watt Quilters? I had an email exchange with Pat Quilter about this and he suggested cranking the gain and/or running a booster pedal in front of the amp. This definitely boosts power, but I lose low volume control with the volume pedal (volume goes from 0 to 60 with the slightest movement). This works ok when the band is cranking, but in the end, I have to wonder whether the light weight and bells and whistles is worth double the price tag of the old analog amps like the Peaveys, at least in live situations.

I've also considered getting the in-ear-monitors and going direct to the sound system, which, again is expensive, but I think the quilter heads would work nicely in that context.

Has anyone A/Bed a quilter head VS NV400 into the same speaker? Query how much of this is due to BW's higher efficiency VS the Neo speakers.
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Shobud "The Professional" D-10, Stage One S-10, National "New Yorker," NV400

Tomi Graso · From: Sydney / Australia

Thanks Rick for your input and suggestions,

Please check out discussion in this thread, got some clever ideas on how to setup the Gain on TB 202.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=402902

Did some experimenting last night with my TB202 / TT12 speaker, I have tried setting up Gain to about 2'clock and Master to about 9-10'clock and it seems to make a big difference when sustaining notes with the volume pedal. There is a lot more volume available to work with and to swell the notes that otherwise would not have been there if you keep your Gain only on 10 or 11'clock.
I was always trying to set up TB202 as a Peavey amp and i think that's where i might have made a mistake. But i am glad i finally got it happening. I am yet to try this on the gig soon, Will report the test results. Stay tuned.

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