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Topic: WHAT are the bell crank lock barrels really called? |
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 30 Sep 2024 8:59 am |
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The closest nomenclature I've found is Cross Dowels, sometimes called barrel nuts as posted earlier. However, these are generally threaded in the middle for a threaded rod or part to pass through sort of like Sierra Royalty and Crown models. Some appear to have the locking screw from the sides but no unthreaded middle holes. These examples do appear to have a locking screw.
Others: https://www.twifasteners.com/product/cross-dowel-slotted-nt01/
Assuming the correct sizes could be found, one could likely drill out the threads, drill and tap the ends for set screws.
I've seen these in a variety of materials including brass.
I would suspect those ones used by the builders are not a stock item but machined to specs by shops. JMO. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2024 4:54 am
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The Dorman 1/16 cable locks are the closest I can find. You could easily open up the hole to 3/32 or 1/8, and they are threaded all the way through. Here is an EBAY listing where they show the dimensions using a digital caliper .250 X .416 which is perfect for me. He wants $7.45 + shipping for each!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-USA-OE-HELP-Brass-1-16-3-32-Carburetor-Cable-Wire-Stop-Lock-1-4-dia-/323796820841?_ul=IL
Strangely you can buy the next size ups in bulk for a reasonable price 25 for about $15. I can only find the 1/16 size in singles or packs of 2 and the prices range from a few dollars to up to $35 a piece! |
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Mike Preuss
From:
Mount Vernon, Washington, USA
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 9 Nov 2024 10:00 am Re: Cable stops
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Thanks Mike!… JD
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 11 Nov 2024 8:04 am
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Hijacking my own thread, but I urgently need some MSA Bell Cranks!
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 13 Nov 2024 7:25 am
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| FWIW, those Amazon parts are built for a small cable. The through hole is only 2mm which equates to less than .080 in. The smallest pull rod I'm aware of is .093 so these would have to be drilled out to accomodate any pull rods....from about 2.5-3mm for the smallest to at least 3.5mm for a .125 rod as are many other similar bike or car cable connectors. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 13 Nov 2024 6:37 pm
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| FWIW, those Amazon parts are built for a small cable. The through hole is only 2mm which equates to less than .080 in. The smallest pull rod I'm aware of is .093 so these would have to be drilled out to accomodate any pull rods....from about 2.5-3mm for the smallest to at least 3.5mm for a .125 rod as are many other similar bike or car cable connectors. |
Like Fuji on his Excel Superbs, I have moved to 2mm “easy to machine” stainless steel rods for all my guitars.
MSA had 1/8 steel and later aluminum rods. I find 2mm much more workable.
So these lock barrels could work just fine.
Thanks!… JD.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2024 6:07 am
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| J D Sauser wrote: |
| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| FWIW, those Amazon parts are built for a small cable. The through hole is only 2mm which equates to less than .080 in. The smallest pull rod I'm aware of is .093 so these would have to be drilled out to accomodate any pull rods....from about 2.5-3mm for the smallest to at least 3.5mm for a .125 rod as are many other similar bike or car cable connectors. |
Like Fuji on his Excel Superbs, I have moved to 2mm “easy to machine” stainless steel rods for all my guitars.
MSA had 1/8 steel and later aluminum rods. I find 2mm much more workable.
So these lock barrels could work just fine.
Thanks!… JD. |
What thread size do you use for these? |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 14 Nov 2024 8:15 am
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| Tim Toberer wrote: |
| J D Sauser wrote: |
| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| FWIW, those Amazon parts are built for a small cable. The through hole is only 2mm which equates to less than .080 in. The smallest pull rod I'm aware of is .093 so these would have to be drilled out to accomodate any pull rods....from about 2.5-3mm for the smallest to at least 3.5mm for a .125 rod as are many other similar bike or car cable connectors. |
Like Fuji on his Excel Superbs, I have moved to 2mm “easy to machine” stainless steel rods for all my guitars.
MSA had 1/8 steel and later aluminum rods. I find 2mm much more workable.
So these lock barrels could work just fine.
Thanks!… JD. |
What thread size do you use for these? |
M2 (metric 2mm x o.4.. the regular thread)
Die MUST be HSS.
I do them on the lathe at slow speed with foaming (spray can) cutting oil.
I buy 4 ft rods from McMaster and thread both sides, so that I can use the cut-off.
… JD
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 14 Nov 2024 9:22 am
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Whatever works for you. 2mm (app .080) is pretty small. I'd be concerned about stability especially on long runs like for pedal 1 etc.
MOF, .093 can be pretty floppy there, but to ea. his own. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2024 9:30 am
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| J D Sauser wrote: |
| Tim Toberer wrote: |
| J D Sauser wrote: |
| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| FWIW, those Amazon parts are built for a small cable. The through hole is only 2mm which equates to less than .080 in. The smallest pull rod I'm aware of is .093 so these would have to be drilled out to accomodate any pull rods....from about 2.5-3mm for the smallest to at least 3.5mm for a .125 rod as are many other similar bike or car cable connectors. |
Like Fuji on his Excel Superbs, I have moved to 2mm “easy to machine” stainless steel rods for all my guitars.
MSA had 1/8 steel and later aluminum rods. I find 2mm much more workable.
So these lock barrels could work just fine.
Thanks!… JD. |
What thread size do you use for these? |
M2 (metric 2mm x o.4.. the regular thread)
Die MUST be HSS.
I do them on the lathe at slow speed with foaming (spray can) cutting oil.
I buy 4 ft rods from McMaster and thread both sides, so that I can use the cut-off.
… JD |
Ok thanks I have been thinking of switching back to steel, aluminum just doesn't seem like it will hold up. So I am thinking a M2.5 standoff would work for a tuning nut? I think I am using M3 for 3/32" so would need slightly smaller. These are a bit confusing. |
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Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2024 1:26 pm
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This listing is for 2.5 MM stand offs the 30mm long are about 1 1/4" I just drill and re tap.
4/40 for 3/32 rod
5/40 for 7/64 rod
6/40 for 1/8 rod
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225255156728?var=524212041350
The nut size is 5mm so they fit the standard wrench perfectly.
Barry
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2024 10:07 am
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| Barry Coker wrote: |
This listing is for 2.5 MM stand offs the 30mm long are about 1 1/4" I just drill and re tap.
4/40 for 3/32 rod
5/40 for 7/64 rod
6/40 for 1/8 rod
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225255156728?var=524212041350
The nut size is 5mm so they fit the standard wrench perfectly.
Barry |
Thank You! |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 15 Nov 2024 10:56 am
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| Tim Toberer wrote: |
| Barry Coker wrote: |
This listing is for 2.5 MM stand offs the 30mm long are about 1 1/4" I just drill and re tap.
4/40 for 3/32 rod
5/40 for 7/64 rod
6/40 for 1/8 rod
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225255156728?var=524212041350
The nut size is 5mm so they fit the standard wrench perfectly.
Barry |
Thank You! |
Their M3 (metric 3mm thread which is exterior 3mm which is just shy of 1/8th on an inch) and has exterior width in between flats of the hex ("S" on the chart below) of 4.7mm (3/16th) would work on steel like 70's & 80's MSAs which used 1/8th rods.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xFEAAOSw65NjdDw4/s-l1600.jpg
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2024 12:39 pm
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I have tried the 3mm that show 4.7 as the outside dimensions and they are not consistent and are a very tight fit in a 3/16 tuning wrench the 2.5mm have a much closer fit in the wrench. Remember Made In CHINA
Barry
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
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Paul Mageau
From:
Maine, USA
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 26 Nov 2024 5:35 pm
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I am currently using those. I use 2mm machinable stainless pull rods on all my conversions and will also on my new builds. Still the hole has to be bored up to 2.5mm.
The screws are M3The need replacing because they are too long and slotted (flat screw driver). So I got a bag of M2 x 3mm socket head set-screws, for a few bucks.
I wished they were M4 screws.
I am at the point that I am considering looking in Europe or making my own for future project. Alll that Amazon-stuff is Chinese made and rarely little above junk level. Getting quality fasteners has become more and more difficult… tools too.
Thanks!… JD.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Paul Mageau
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 26 Nov 2024 6:44 pm
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Hey JD.
I use 2mm rods as well on my Excel but noticed the hole needs to be bigger. I didn’t notice the set screw oddity so thanks for that tip! |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 5 Dec 2024 11:43 am
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If anyone is interested I have a link to Aussie sourced barrels-9 millimetre long by 8 mm diameter and 2.5 mm hole which takes M5 screw. I have substituted the screws for my own grub screws. they are a perfect fit for 2.38 mm Rod. Unfortunately, I find it hard to source these rods at an economical price, so I am only using this rod for short reverse lever push rods.
Regarding 2 mm rod, which is also hard to source here, I wonder if there ever is a problem with the nylon hex nuts stripping on the fine thread.
Last edited by John Hyland on 5 Dec 2024 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 5 Dec 2024 1:10 pm
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Excel uses 2mm rids with standard nylon tuners. No problem!
I use them on all my new re-builds.
… JD.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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