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Topic: WHAT are the bell crank lock barrels really called? |
J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 18 Sep 2024 10:33 am |
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I am looking for the real world technical name of the "lock barrels" found in the bell cranks holding the pull rod of guitars like older MSA or Excel Superb etc.
The barrels with the side lock screw.
I try to find an industrial source outside of the "steel guitar parts" mills.
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
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Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 18 Sep 2024 1:01 pm
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Hi JD
Picture?
I have not seen the mech for the guitars you have mentioned but maybe a “shaft collar”
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/shaft-collars/
If so hobby shops can be a good source if you only need one or two. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 18 Sep 2024 1:33 pm
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Hey John.
The "locking barrels" used in these types of bell cranks:
Them little buggers:
(source: www.PsgParts.com)
Besides updating an 80's MSA, I have 4 Excells which use a similar "Barrels" and am designing my prototype PSG... so I need a source in bulk.
I will most likely buy the ones I need for the MSA from PsgParts.com.
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 19 Sep 2024 1:33 am
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| Well that’s the opposite of the shaft collar. The only thing that come close is a cross dowel barrel nut but the shaft hole is threaded and the is no locking grub screw end hole. |
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Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2024 2:50 am
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/264876548142
I use somthing like this I found these in brass several years ago but haven't had much luck with the brass latley. I have been trying these and they seem to be working fine.
Drill your pull rod hole and cut to .375" install a 6/32 by 1/8 allen set screw they are threaded inside.
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2024 4:48 am
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If you find them I would love to know where. I searched and searched. This is the only thing I found that is close. Cable stops.
I made mine out of brass rod, not as fancy as these, but they work and are cheap to make. I had to make a jig to drill them accurately, and also make the tiny shaft collar the holds the rod. PITA! |
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Rich Cottle
From:
Sacramento California
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Posted 19 Sep 2024 7:57 am Pull pins
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Ive been fooling around with pedal steel guitars for 50 years and we always called them pull pins ,which are easier to deal with then custom made angled pull rods , the MSA bell cranks are the worst, they always break ,I replace them to fit 3/8" hex shaft w rounded ends, $15.00.each or $3.00 each for pull pins only
Picture file
Last edited by Rich Cottle on 19 Sep 2024 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bruce Zumsteg
From:
Harrisonville, Missouri, USA
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 20 Sep 2024 12:32 pm
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Thanks everybody.
I would have expected that these barrels have uses in many mechanical applications outside of the Steel Guitar "World" and would thus have a standard "name". Apparently, that's not the case.
| Rich Cottle wrote: |
Ive been fooling around with pedal steel guitars for 50 years and we always called them pull pins ,which are easier to deal with then custom made angled pull rods , the MSA bell cranks are the worst, they always break ,I replace them to fit 3/8" hex shaft w rounded ends, $15.00.each or $3.00 each for pull pins only
Picture file |
Thanks Rich. I will use the round shafts on that late 80's gen. MSA. I don't dislike the round shafts, never had a bell crank slip on them. I replace the shafts with thick-walled stainless tubing, saving just over 50% or the weight compared to the full rods they used.
I might hit you up for a hand full of the "lock barrels" or as you call them "pins".
IF, I'd go with new bell cranks, I would -since these MSAs have 1/8 thick pull rods rather go to a spring pin-thru-the-rod systems like Franklin and some Zums used with the "comb"-slotted bell cranks.
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 20 Sep 2024 2:16 pm
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| Stainless steel capillary tube is quite expensive is alum to bendy for you? |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 20 Sep 2024 2:26 pm
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| John Hyland wrote: |
| Stainless steel capillary tube is quite expensive is alum to bendy for you? |
Yes it is expensive. Even the 303 Stainless pull rods are.
Aluminum is not strong enough and also "runs" bad on most materials.
By the way, folks... I found some "lock barrels" at a bike shop today. The won't fit, but it's the exact same concept.
The names for them in THAT industry are:
Cable Locks
Cable Nipples
Cable Lock Nipples
they are used to connect brake cables to the handles.
Once you search for those terms on Amazon... your house is being run over with offers. I got to look for sizes. I would be very surprised that companies like MSA which at one point more guitars than all other brands combined would have machined these thingies one by one... this stuff is "standard" small parts.
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 20 Sep 2024 2:28 pm
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What do you mean by “runs”? Have you consider carbon fibre rod
Also add “solderless” to your search for the barrel |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 20 Sep 2024 4:21 pm
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| John Hyland wrote: |
What do you mean by “runs”? Have you consider carbon fibre rod
Also add “solderless” to your search for the barrel |
by "running" on/with/against I mean that Aluminum tends to bind with everything it has friction with. Even steel but more so brass and even better bronce (even if it's not sintered (oil in the mix)) can handle friction much better.
Aluminum is so bad, It will bind over time under tight fits even without movement, it won't even run well on delron. If you remember Sierra Sessions, had aluminum cross shafts in delron bushings... they had to keep such sloppy tolerances, you could wiggle the shafts in them. Steel will "run" well, even at tight fits in delron.
I've built changers with brass fingers... it's smooth and they never wear out.
I've seen good name brand steels with aluminum residue gumming up the heat treated steel shaft, and then that wear the hole in the finger out.
So, that's what I mean with "won't run well on anything".
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2024 9:01 am
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Tim you might want to check the OD size on your MSA bell cranks is 1/4" and 3/8" long just got through making some.
Barry
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2024 10:26 am
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| Barry Coker wrote: |
Tim you might want to check the OD size on your MSA bell cranks is 1/4" and 3/8" long just got through making some.
Barry |
Actually my bellcranks are made by me so I can adjust the dimensions if needed. I found some other brass cable stops that are 6mm that might work better, considering the first ones I made are 1/4". It is hard to find the dimensions of some of them. |
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Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2024 12:10 pm
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Sorry I didn't catch you were making your own I tried the 6mm there a little loose I found a 6.3mm bit that is a nice fit for the 1/4" barrels.
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 21 Sep 2024 2:25 pm
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| Tim. I’ve also seen the 6mm cable locks (8mm long) but the descriptions never indicate diameter of the cable hole. Do you have any in your possession to measure? |
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Bill Fisher
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2024 3:23 pm
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I agree with J.D. Aluminum is not for me.
Bill |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 21 Sep 2024 4:58 pm
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| John Hyland wrote: |
| Tim. I’ve also seen the 6mm cable locks (8mm long) but the descriptions never indicate diameter of the cable hole. Do you have any in your possession to measure? |
I’ve ordered a whole array off Amazon.
I’ll report back as they come im.
… JD.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Junior Knight
From:
Eustace Texas..paddle faster..I hear Banjos...
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Posted 22 Sep 2024 5:39 am
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They are called “pull pins”
_________________
2006 Msa S-12 “milly” 8 & 5 1976 Msa D-10 Classic 8 & 6
. Peavey Nashville 1-12 Tommy Huff speaker cabs. Goodrich pedals & matchbro.Steeler Choice seats.. that is all..(for now) lol
www.msapedalsteels.com
texsteelman2@yahoo.com
Jagwire Strings
Facebook/ Junior Knight, Steel Guitar |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 22 Sep 2024 10:28 am
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| Junior Knight wrote: |
| They are called “pull pins” |
Thanks for chipping in, JR, Sir.
Yes, I've heard than some Steel Builders used to call them as much.
Sadly, in industry, outside of the PSG-cloud... a Pull Pin is something entirely different:
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/pull-pins/
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pull+pin
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pull+pin&t=osx&ia=images&iax=images
So far, the best luck I've had, even with reverse picture search are the terms:
Cable Lock
Cable Nipple
Cable Lock Nipple
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 22 Sep 2024 2:53 pm
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...cable nipple, barrel clamp, barrel nut, cable clamp, cable stop, cable lock, throttle cable barrel, throttle clamp, swivel clamp, cable lock barrel, binding post... I don't think you're going to find a consensus on a single correct name for the little piece of hardware that does this particular job, but there are tons available out there. Amazon has many options, mostly metric, but also carburetor supply places, kart racing suppliers, scooter and motorcycle part suppliers, etc. Whether you'll find any the correct size is another question. They're very easy to fabricate to a specific size if you have a lathe, but easier to buy if you can find a workable size at a reasonable price.
A reverse image search will usually provide a lot of rabbit holes to explore: https://lens.google.com/search?
_________________
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 24 Sep 2024 1:18 pm
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| Most examples have the screw (which you have to replace with a grub type screw) are tapped on one side only. Using the threaded spacer option and drilling your own pass through hole mean you can lock the rod from either side. Useful for adjacent bellcranks. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2024 8:51 am
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GFI calls their brass bell crank to rod connectors, Brass Ferrule, They have a flange on 1 side for single lever bell crank.
The Brass Connectors in MSA bell cranks are bastard size.
The holes in the original MSA Bell cranks I have are .270. Closest would be an (I) size letter drill.
The brass connector is.
.375 / 3/8" long.
Diameter is
.268 diameter
I knew there was something strange about this part, When I seen this. I had to turn down a brass rod to make a few for my refurbish and set up of a MSA guitar. |
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