Austin, TX - cut and rethread pull rod?

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

Is there anyone near Austin who could help cut down and rethread a pull rod? My LKL rod is threaded too small and slips right through the tuning nut. I’d love to recycle it and have it do the work for another pedal or lever.

Thanks!
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I’ve done myself a few times. It’s pretty easy. You need a small vice, hacksaw and tap and die tool. Get the right length then you twist the tap and die tool down the rod.

I’m sure you can find somebody in town to help.
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Bob

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

Thank you, Bob! Great to know the tools needed. I think I’m about to enter a season of buying tools…
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Hi Charlie. I see in your sign you have a Sierra. Is the guitar to which you refer? Does it have the barrel nuts in the bellcranks and the rod threaded at that end, or is it the more conventional style with tuning nuts at the right end plate?

Curious, if the rod is actually smaller than the others or the tuning nut is just stripped.

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

Hi Jerry,

Good question, and thanks for chiming in.

This is the Sierra and it has barrel nuts in the bell crank which the rod threads through. I did run the problem rod and another rod through a measurement tool and both are 0.125. When I run my fingers across the threads it’s clear the problem rod has threads that take the rod to a smaller diameter. I can feel a noticeable bump between the threads and the rod.

I think the best move is chopping off the threads and just repurposing this rod for a shorter length.

It looks like the tools needed would be a few hundred bucks, no doubt a good long term investment but it’s not in the cards for me right now!

** edit: oh! And yes my first thought was a stripped nut, but it works on the other rod. I am pretty confident the rod was simply threaded at the wrong size.
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Joe Bill Moad · From: Oklahoma

Charlie

I just found a great place to get your problem solved. Brandt Precision Machine shop will thread or duplicate the rod whichever is needed. Ask for Dave Lepan and he will take care of you and said he would even instruct you on how to do this yourself cheap as he will be also, His price will be real low anyway but a great helpful guy to help you and get it fixed perfect!

Good Luck

Jbm
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Magnum D-10 Pro Select , Hudson S-6 Pedal Steel, Fender 1965 Vintage Blackface Bassman Head, Fender 70’s Whiteface Head, Fender 1965 Vintage Bandmaster (1), Fender Tweed 1959 Kit Amp-2 -12” mojos, Twin Reverb Tonemaster, Peavey Mark 3 Bassman Head, Peavey Combo Bassman 300 Amp, Vintage 1947 Hammond B-3 Organ, Vintage Fender Cab with 2 -15” JBL’s, 2 vintage Fender cabs w- mojo 12” speakers, Fender Strats (3), Fender Tele’s (2), Gibson Les Paul Standard, Gibson Les Paul Jr, Allen Heath 13 channel board (2).

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

Jbm awesome recommendation! They’re not to far from me! I just got off the phone with Dave and he said y’all had just spoken. I really appreciate you looking out. I’m going to swing by today / this week when I get a window to jump out there.

I’ll follow up, thank you!
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Hope that works out for you Charlie. FYI, if it turns out you need a barrel nut, I might have a used one from my old Crown to offer you.

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

Jerry, that’s very generous and much appreciated. The tuning nut on my Sierra is described here:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=403402

I am planning on putting an order in with Jim Palenscar once I get a few things sold on my end, but if you ever have Sierra parts you are willing to part with (no pun intended) I’ll be happy to take a look and pay for them. From what Jim told me and from what I’ve seen in photos my Sierra is a sort of hybrid between the crown and session and has some quirky measurements for some pieces.

Thank you!
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

This is an example of a great forum!

~Lee

Joe Bill Moad · From: Oklahoma

Charlie

No Problemo whatsoever! I knew Dave would be helpful and glad to help you. It’s good to know these professionals because they can build you any part needed (worst case scenario) if you supply the broken or worn out part. Aluminum, Stainless, or any strength metal they can fabricate a lot of times cheaper than buying a major part. They help people with any metal needs large or small. I use machine shops every year for something broke on my plows, Tractors, seed drills, etc. They are 3 times lower than the manufacturer pricings nowadays. Just hoped Dave would be interested in a small project such as yours and he was! Pass the word to all of your compadres around Austin.

Let the Good Times Roll!

Jbm
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Magnum D-10 Pro Select , Hudson S-6 Pedal Steel, Fender 1965 Vintage Blackface Bassman Head, Fender 70’s Whiteface Head, Fender 1965 Vintage Bandmaster (1), Fender Tweed 1959 Kit Amp-2 -12” mojos, Twin Reverb Tonemaster, Peavey Mark 3 Bassman Head, Peavey Combo Bassman 300 Amp, Vintage 1947 Hammond B-3 Organ, Vintage Fender Cab with 2 -15” JBL’s, 2 vintage Fender cabs w- mojo 12” speakers, Fender Strats (3), Fender Tele’s (2), Gibson Les Paul Standard, Gibson Les Paul Jr, Allen Heath 13 channel board (2).

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

From your description the rod being .125/1/8 inch. Those can be a real problem. Some companies using 1/8" rod like MSA and threaded their rods 6-40. When I rebuilt a MSA I bought a 6-40 die. The guitar had aluminum, plain steel and even bronze welding rods. I bought stainless steel and replaced every bad rod.
Some people want to thread 1/8" 5-40 and that is where the problem shows its ugly face. Nylon 1/8 tuners will not hold on a 5-40 thread.

If you need help, Let me know, I will help if I can, Getting your problem solved.bj

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

Thanks for the reply BJ, I think that’s exactly what happened in this situation. I’m going to try to connect with Dave at Jbm’s recommendation today! If he can help me trim a few extra pull rods back I think I’ll even have everything I need for the factory copedent. I’m only 2 weeks into PSG and when I was parts searching last week I didn’t think about the fact the current tuning has 36 pulls and the factory tuning has 30 by my count.. so I should have sufficient spare parts once I trim the extra rods. Excited to have this in the universal tuning!

It’s been a really fun couple weeks of learning. Thank you to all on and off the forum who have offered help and guidance! I’ve been so encouraged by the spirit of this community.
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Hey Charlie. I have owned 2 Sierra Crown SCM14SE steels. Both with 7 knees and 8 pedals. If there's anything I can clear up for you re: the copedent, lemme know.

I'm pretty sure I have a factory chart for these guitars with this configuration.

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

Thanks Jerry, mine is missing one of the “inner” knee levers so down the road I may try to replace that. I’ve found the factory copedent for the non-SE model but if you have one for the SE somewhere, and especially if you happen to have a rodding chart I’d be super interested!

Thank you,
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Here's the coped for the SCM 14SE per Bill Stafford for whom the model was built and named.

I'm not sure if I have a rodding chart for this config, but I'll poke around and see. JO.

For trivia's sake, if you're interested in the model nomenclature it goes like this.

Sierra Crown Master 14 Stafford Elegante`

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

This is fantastic! I really wish I could get ahold of his CDs, I’ve messaged on Facebook but haven’t heard back yet.

Thanks Jerry. Hey do you have the instructional booklet he wrote that those shipped with?
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

No, I don't Charlie. I bought both of mine used and did not get those booklets.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=165871&highlight=bill+stafford

Bill has comments on the 14 stringers several posts down where he explains his reasoning for his tuning and changes.

Sorry if I'm overloading you with this stuff Question

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

Jerry this is great stuff, thank you!
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

Following up...

Jbm, I went to Brandt Precision Machining and they were very helpful. They did not have the die needed to thread the 1/8th inch rod. Bobby is right, it is 6-40 which does not seem to be a very common size.

Dave offered to order the die and charge me for it so I could keep it and use it in the future. After factoring that + the cost of shop hours we decided it made sense for me to try to source some good deals on tools myself and just give it a go in my garage. If all else fails I'll at least have some useful tools and Dave can use the die I ordered to get the job done.

So I'm kind of back to Bob's suggestion of buying the tools.

A bench vise, 6-40 die, 20mm die stock, and cutting lubricant ran me about $80 total, and I know the vise will get some good use for other projects around the house down the road.

I'll give this all a go when it comes in the mail.

It really comes out to about the cost of the job and hopefully I'll have the tools and experience to take care of this myself moving forward.
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Charlie Brown

Sierra SCM-14SE
Gibson L12
Henriksen Bud
Victoria Ivy League

Joe Bill Moad · From: Oklahoma

Charlie

You did the right thing for sure! I hope this way gets it done and you will learn a lot more from it! Great Job!!

Jbm
_________________
Magnum D-10 Pro Select , Hudson S-6 Pedal Steel, Fender 1965 Vintage Blackface Bassman Head, Fender 70’s Whiteface Head, Fender 1965 Vintage Bandmaster (1), Fender Tweed 1959 Kit Amp-2 -12” mojos, Twin Reverb Tonemaster, Peavey Mark 3 Bassman Head, Peavey Combo Bassman 300 Amp, Vintage 1947 Hammond B-3 Organ, Vintage Fender Cab with 2 -15” JBL’s, 2 vintage Fender cabs w- mojo 12” speakers, Fender Strats (3), Fender Tele’s (2), Gibson Les Paul Standard, Gibson Les Paul Jr, Allen Heath 13 channel board (2).

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

I do all my PSG upgrades using "easy to machine" 303 stainless steel. I always buy 3foot rods and thread both ends, so I can cut 2 rods out of each.

- After cutting, point the end on a grinder or belt sander.
- Use QUALITY dies with the proper wrench and plenty of light or cutting oil.
- Go about it SLOWLY applying enough pressure so the die does start to cut in at leas a few full turns, ALWAYS checking level 360deg.
- Keep going on slow even after the die has started to "pull" itself in.

... J-D.
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Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"

A Little Mental Health Warning:

Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.

I say it humorously, but I mean it.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

When using Taps or dies, A machinist rule is turn the tap or die 1/2 turn, Back up 1/4 of a turn, 1/2 turn, Back up 1/4 turn through whole threading operation.
The reason being if you just keep turning the metal shavings will wad together and can tear part of the new threads. By backing up every 1/2 turn you break the shavings into short pieces that will fall out of the die or tap.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

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