| Author |
Topic: Can you play a U-12 then go to a D-10. I’m about to find out |
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
|
Posted 8 Sep 2024 1:39 pm |
|
I have been a U-12 player for quite some time. Started out with a single neck with three pedals and a few knee levers to the U-12 with 7 pedals and 6 knee levers using the Jeff Newman setup.
Fast forward a bunch of decades and listening to Buddy and other Emmons players, I know if you want that Emmons vibe you have to have the real deal. So what the hell, I have on order an Emmons Resound D-10 with 8 pedals and 7 knee levers.
I don’t intend to give up the U-12 E9/B6 and willhave the C6 neck on the Emmons tuned to B6. Like Willie said, Still crazy after all these years.
_________________
I survived the sixties! |
|
|
 |
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 8 Sep 2024 1:59 pm
|
|
You will have absolutely no troube switching back and forth with your back neck tuned to B v. C.
I did that for several years when I owned both D10s and Unis.
Congratulations on acquiring one of the new Emmons axes. |
|
|
|
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
|
Posted 8 Sep 2024 7:09 pm
|
|
When I switched from a U12 to a D10 everything got more easy. It took a couple minutes to adjust to the string spacing.
_________________
Bob |
|
|
|
Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
|
Posted 8 Sep 2024 9:26 pm
|
|
Jeff Newman E9th/B6th Universal tuning has the B on 9th string. On the E9th tuning the B is 10th string.
The G#-E-B grip, May take some serious thumb training.
Good Luck in this adventure. |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 9 Sep 2024 12:55 am
|
|
My mileage varies. After I'd been on my homemade uni for a while I got my old D10 out to check it over before passing it on, and I could barely play it!
In particular the E9 neck was a mile away* and felt like instant back strain. S12 is much more ergonomic 
[*how did people manage with three and four necks?]
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
|
Posted 9 Sep 2024 4:35 am
|
|
There are various reasons why some prefer D-10 and others U-12. More knees per neck is the biggest one. The question would be, why would you want to switch back and forth between the two guitars? I played D-10 for 8 years before I switched to U-12 and that was before U-12 tuning was standardized. I played a D-13 before E9/B6. I found no reason to go back to D-10. I've also developed a little of my own style on U-12 which isn't a bad thing. As Buddy once said, "copying is easy. Creating is harder."
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
|
|
|
Dave O'Brien
From:
Florida and New Jersey
|
Posted 9 Sep 2024 5:19 am U12 & D10
|
|
Just set up your U12 like the D10 use Sierra copedant not Newman.
_________________
Dave O'Brien
Emmons D-10, CMI D-10, Fender Deluxe Reverb, PV 112, Fender Pro Reverb
www.myspace.com/daveobrienband |
|
|
|
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
|
Posted 9 Sep 2024 7:12 am
|
|
I just want an Emmons guitar and a U-12 Emmons is not available. I also figure that having the C6 neck tuned a half step down to B6 I would not have to think any differently and have more options with pedals and knee levers on that neck.
I don't play out that often and would still use the U-12. The recent post by Johnny Cox was interesting about Modern Vs Vintage sound. I agree that if you want a vintage rig requires a vintage guitar. Although the Resound 65 is not vintage it is made to have that vibe. At 75 what else do I have to do but try to have some fun doing what I like to do
Thank for all the responses.
_________________
I survived the sixties! |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 9 Sep 2024 8:10 am
|
|
Absolutely, Len. Do what the heck you want - I know I do
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
|
Posted 10 Sep 2024 9:44 am
|
|
| You can always string up your front neck as E9/B6 and the transition would be seamless for you... Top 10 strings of Uni12. Only difference from standard E9 is the B ( and levered D ) on string 9, and G# ( and pedalled A) on 10. |
|
|
|
Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
|
Posted 10 Sep 2024 9:46 am
|
|
What Andrew suggested!
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
|
|
|
Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
|
Posted 10 Sep 2024 11:25 am D10
|
|
Aloha Len..if you go to the heavier D10 you might have to get a Gym membership to go along with it! 
_________________
Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
|
|
|
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 10 Sep 2024 11:26 am
|
|
It's not a problem for a seasoned player like Len with your back neck tuned to B. You can switch back and forth at will. If I can do it, anybody can.
Sometimes, it's nice to have a guitar with a different feel. Makes you think and educates your mind and ear. |
|
|
|
Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
|
Posted 10 Sep 2024 12:56 pm
|
|
I played U-12 guitars, E9/B6, for a long time. 7 pedals and 6 knee-levers. At some point, I got a really good deal on an S-10, E9, 3 pedals and 5 knee-levers. At the time I bought that S-10, I hadn't played one in about 15 years or so. It was such an easy transition from U-12 to S-10. But, switching from the S-10 back to the U-12 was a real struggle. It would take days for my brain, hands, eyes, and feet to get used to the U-12 again. The S-10 would live in the closet for a few months while I was playing the U-12. Whenever I would set up the S-10 again, it would take just minutes to get back in the groove. I fell in love with the E9 tuning all over again. I haven't played a D-10 since the 1980s. I often wonder if the C6 neck would make more sense now.
~Lee |
|
|
|
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
|
Posted 10 Sep 2024 4:40 pm
|
|
Thanks for the insight and encouragement. Part of the effort will be mentally not holding the RKR on the B6 neck on the D-10. I have not full written my copedent down for the B6 neck but I am hoping to extend what I have on the U-12. In any event it will be fun project😎
_________________
I survived the sixties! |
|
|
|
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
|
Posted 11 Sep 2024 5:08 am
|
|
Len,
you are going to love that new Emmons ! I’m waiting to hear your impressions of it. The push pull thing is real.
_________________
Bob |
|
|
|
SveinungL
From:
Gjøvik - Norway - Europe - Earth
|
Posted 11 Sep 2024 12:40 pm
|
|
I’m sure it will be fine to switch between u-12 and d-10. If you’re not comfortable with it there are old u-12 Emmons p/p ‘s out there. I have set mine up with 7+5 and it works flawlessly. Have been stable for many years.
I guess the new resound will be fantastic!
_________________
Thanks Sveinung Lilleheier
----------------
My web page |
|
|
|
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
|
Posted 12 Sep 2024 12:26 pm
|
|
Hi Bob and Sven. Thanks for the advise. I am fairly down in the que list so it will be awhile before I take delivery. I’m still working on the pedal and knee setup. I know what I want for the E9 and probably go with pedals 4, 5, 6, and 7 like on my U-12 for the B6.
Any suggestions will be appreciated for knee levers for the B6 neck
_________________
I survived the sixties! |
|
|
|
J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
|
Posted 18 Sep 2024 3:42 pm Re: Can you play a U-12 then go to a D-10. I’m about...
|
|
| Len Amaral wrote: |
I have been a U-12 player for quite some time. Started out with a single neck with three pedals and a few knee levers to the U-12 with 7 pedals and 6 knee levers using the Jeff Newman setup.
Fast forward a bunch of decades and listening to Buddy and other Emmons players, I know if you want that Emmons vibe you have to have the real deal. So what the hell, I have on order an Emmons Resound D-10 with 8 pedals and 7 knee levers.
I don’t intend to give up the U-12 E9/B6 and willhave the C6 neck on the Emmons tuned to B6. Like Willie said, Still crazy after all these years. |
I think a well setup S12 Universal can beat most "standard" D10, when it's player understands that it's ONE tuning. Something Jeff did, and Maurice lived.
BE has played many guitars, and always sounded like BE. I doubt that going to his setup, which was fairly standard, make the difference. But it's nevertheless not a bad idea.
I would say that separating the two tunings can be an advantage to separate tuning TEMPERAMENT (maybe E9th more towards JI and C6th more towards ET because of it's "stacked changes"), and add tuning specific changes like modern E9th changes which have become almost standard now.
Then again, I have now as many changes on my S12 C6th (6P & 8K) and I still don't sound like BE or any of my heroes, and I never will. Quite frankly it's not even my goal anymore. But if it was, once one has good equipment, it's not some other guy's equipment that will get you closer. Well! Maybe I should relativate that... after all, many who wanted to play in the tradition of Jerry Byrd, used pre-WWII Rickenbacher lap steels (I should know, been there-done that, guilty as charged!). But in general, a lap steel will have very different dynamics than a pedal steel, so maybe that's a bit a leap of a comparison.
On the other hand, if one wanted to sound like BE, what brand would one even choose:
- Sho-Bud (and which)?
- Emmons PP (and WHICH?)?
- MCI or EMCI?
- Keyless Sierra?
- Derby?
- Zum?
- or a 12 string Carter or Sierra maybe? 
Can the transition be done? Sure!
To me, every change like that, is a 3 months max event. Once you did it, it's like riding a bike... you can go back..., and forth, one acquired a new capability. Jeff and Maurice have done it all their life, Maurice even with 2 different Uni-tunings which were much more different than just a half step apart of each others, and inverted but with also a different layout of chord degrees and changes and they both played D10's for seminars too. Of course, they were professionals. Jeff had no issue playing an Emmons or Day setup either.
I never understood how grown men could "try" going from S10 or D10 to S12 and surrender. It's a 3 months "bite it thru"-event.
I mean, many of the older generations went from 6 string to 7 or 8 non-pedal lap and console steels, then 10 and then some went to 12 and even 14 and the setups just kept evolving. No one back then, just threw the towel "can't do it".
Ask a Sax player... if they go from a tenor to an alto sax... the buttons even change, and even more so on a clarinet. It's like to us another tuning and then it's in different keys too! And most of them learn to do it.
What I would do, IF you do the "jump" is to dedicate 3 months straight to it WITHOUT going back to the S12 until you are 100% sattlefast on the D10. I think it's early back and forth which has had many fail. It should be a goal and then you go and DO it. Only after that, would I start going between the 2 guitars. And it will be fun, because you will learn things on the one and the other which you will apply to both eventually.
The more you challenge your brain, the more "stuff" just starts bubbling up!
I have the same tuning on my S12 lap steel than on my S12 C6th PSG with 6&8... when I travel, I at least have my lapsteel with me... and I come back with new things which had been in front of my nose on the PSG all along. Changes done right, can lead to new discoveries.
I mentioned a few times now how 3 years ago I added a 3rd finger pick. I made a decision and put it on EVERY time I'd sit at the guitar. I had never felt so inadequate for at least 1 month! But I never took it off... EVER, until in the second half of the 3rd month I started to see a light of hope. Now it's as much part of me as the thumb pick. Had I only tried around with it, I would probably long ago thrown it against the wall and stepped on it.
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 18 Sep 2024 5:58 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| Can you play a U-12 then go to a D-10. I’m about to find out |
The answer is yes. There is not much difference. On U12 I hit a lever to get D on string 9. On D10 E9, I don't have to.
I personally split Es on a D10 as well as U12. I personally go Emmons ABC, E=>F on LKL, E=>Eb on RKL. I just prefer that. But whatever works for you on U12, I see no reason to change your approach on the E9 neck of a D10. |
|
|
|
